Anyone recognise this?

Original identity.......?

 

Does not look like it is in UK
Bogies look like replacements.
Has the body been shortened to accommodate the handbrake?
Is it ARMY?
Which may mean originally LSWR.

 

"DR" can be made out amongst some mild graffiti in the middle, so of German origin and last fully painted in the East!

I don't believe the body has been shortened - it was far from unknown for German (and probably other European) stock to have a body slightly shorter than the underframe to accommodate the handbrake, even though it is applied from inside!

I would suggest perhaps from Saxony in origin,. but with each "Duchy" having its own system, many used rolling stock of the same design as each other, so it could possibly be from a number of pre-DRG (effectively pre-Great War) Railways.

The electric loco behind it and wagon on the left of the short suggest somewhere in its country of origin.

Steven

 

Dresden Altstadt shed. Got the impression that it was narrower than regular German vehicles and possibly of British origin.

 

The windows have a hint of "Ashford Gothic" which was a SE&CR transitional design style (square bottom corners from the LCDR and rounded top corners from the SER). Clearly looks to have had a lot of later modifications, notably a new underframe (which is too long); sheeted over with metal panels and, by the look of it, some of the doors rendered inoperative. It also appears to be a non brake coach that has been converted to have a handbrake in the end compartment.

Tom

 

Could it be either of (a) part of a British Army Ambulance Train or (b) part of the UK military Train that used to run from Berlin to Hannover each week to maintain the right of "unrestricted" transit through East Germany ?

 

I was wondering if it was from one of the British Ambulance trains sent to France 1939/40, possibly of LMS/LNWR origins.

I believe that the post-war British Army West Germany to Berlin trains would have been of Bundesbahn owned/operated rolling stock - it certainly was in the case of the one I saw around 1991 (?) lettered up as 'Royal Corps of Transport'.

 

The style of doors and windows looks very similar to some 4 wheel carriages being built I think into the 19302 and of which several survive which are definitely of German origin.

All European carriages have their own hand-brake, even those loco hauled vehicles still in daily service (and screw couplings, even when propelled at up to 200kph!)

I am still inclined to think it is of German and not UK origin, but a good list of preserved German coaching stock seems very elusive!

Steven

 

The bogies, with their pronounced equalizing beams, and transverse leaf springs are I think what is referred to as the American type. I think the GWR used them on some vehicles but they were presumably common in a number of countries.

 

They are certainly American type bogies but not ex GWR - the axleboxes are different and I'm pretty certain that the coach is not British but German as Steven says. It does not appear to be listed on Aldstadt's website but I tend to think that it's ex Prussian or Saxon State Railways from the shape of the doors amongst other features. Interesting pic. - thanks for posting it.
Ray.

 

This reminded me that the LMSCA was contacted by Ernst-Jan Goedbloed of the Veluwsche Stoomtrein Mattschappij steam museum at Beckbergen in Holland in 2006. He had visited the Koscierzyna railway museum in Poland and discovered a strange looking vehicle that had 'LMS' on the axlebox covers. After some exchange of emails we concluded it was probably a new body placed on a Period 1 LMS WW2 ambulance conversion chassis. The chassis being typical LMS with angle trussing and the lifting eyes fitted to ambulance conversions for shipping.
Dave

 

Two things about the vehicle in the OP make me suspect it is of continental origin - the doors open the opposite way to UK practice and the door buffers on the body side are quite unlike any I've seen in UK practice. I'm prepared to be proved wrong, though!

 

I wonder if this is the original body, albeit somewhat altered. What makes me think this is that the profile appears exactly that of a LMS period 1 coach and it fits the underframe exactly. Continental coach bodies would be wider than British and the sides are usually vertical or at least have less pronounced "tumblehome".