Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 22A, Jan 7, 2009.
Not in religious circles it isn't!!
More interestingly though where did they go off the LMS?
They seem to have visited what is now the Mid Hants for example
What's the definition?
Where were they shedded outside the LMS? --- towards the end, Shrewsbury, Croes Newydd, Banbury, Wakefield. There was one at Kings Cross for a while I believe. Then there was a whole stud for many years at Ferryhill. I'm counting Bristol Barrow Road and Bath Green Park as Midland despite the shed number.
Where did they run to on regular timetabled passenger trains? --- Scarborough, Bridlington, Newhaven, Bournemouth via Basingstoke (and of course S and D), Chester to Shrewsbury. Probably Skegness from the E Midlands. That's just a starter for ten.
Where did they go occasionally? Where did they not get to? Too heavy for the M and GN. Possibly out of gauge for the SECR--- were they allowed through Olympia or Redhill to the Kent Coast?
Those Black 5s built by Armstrong Whitworths, would no doubt have been delivered via the LNER's Newcastle-Carlisle line as their works were right beside the line at Scotswood on the now closed section. All Carlisle/Hexham trains going via the KE7 bridge Dunston and the Metro Centre.
Shrewsbury to Swansea Victoria.
They certainly ran to Whitby via the Whitby-Pickering line (now the NYMR, of course) in BR days.
They were regular visitors to the Kent and Sussex resorts with excursions from North London and various
London Midlanr origins eg Bedford, Watford Junction etc, particularly by the Brighton Line, usually via
the Quarry line, but occasionally routed via Redhill. They sometimes appeared on the Portsmouth
direct and the Mid Sussex routes. I think they were less common on the ex LC&D and SER routes.
I think they also appeared on the Eastborne car sleeper from Willesden to Newhaven Harbour
and certainly they took part in the through Manchester Brighton workings
AFAIK the only time they were allocated to SR depots was temporary post the withdrawal of the
Bulleid Pacific’s following the incident to MN 35020 in April 1953. They were regular performers
on the Basingstoke ‘residentials’ until all the WC/BBs had been checked and returned to
in 1966 ( following the withdrawal of WR steam and particularly the Halls ) they hauled the
York Bournemouth between Banbury and Bournemouth West. Bournemouth often used
the Saturday arrival to take the early Sunday semi fast to Waterloo, which was occasionally
diverted via the Alps ( Mid Hants )
Yes they were regulars on the Eastern and Central Sections of the SR but AFAIK never
allocated to a Southern Depot, other than temporarily, unless someone know otherwise ?
They were certainly truly ubiquitous.
Northern Counties Committee (I)
Class 5s certainly ran to Shoebury and Tilbury
Did they ever work over the Cambrian?
What about the West Country, over the ex LSWR and GWR lines in Devon and Cornwall?
I have a shot in a book of 45434 (TRN 1X69) passing Salfords northbound on a summer Saturday service from the south coast with LMS stock. So as said above, they went on the Brighton main line.
I'm sure someone will come up with a photo, but I can't remember ever seeing a picture of one west of Exeter on the South Western lines - don't know about the GWR.
Sure. But did they go to Kent via Chislehurst or Bromley South or Penshurst (or any other way)?
Edit : I 've been doing some research, aka reading Trains Illustrated 1959. In the section about noteworthy loco workings I found two mentions of Black 5s on excursions to Margate, one via Herne Hill and one via the Catford Loop. So I reckon the answer is ---rarely. There is similar mention of excursions to Weston-Super-Mare, presumably from the Midlands.
Rather funnily, considering their presence during the preservation era, is Fort William to Mallaig on the West Highland Extension.
While there we no doubt rare occurances where a Black 5 made it to the fishing village, it's been well noted that the 5MT's were too large for the turntable at Mallaig and so tended to not stray further than Fort William. Moguls, particularly of the ex GN and LNER/BR(E) breed, appeared to be the mainstay of workings having replaced the earlier North British 4-4-0's.
Doubtful. Checking data, as far as weight goes, they're broadly comparable to the 68XX (Grange), which certainly weren't permitted (AFAIK, 78XX* Manors were the largest machines to tread those metals). I couldn't find anything for steam days, but this was the situation in 1969 [from Mainline Railways of North Wales website]:
*prior to the 78XX, I've seen no photos of anything on the Cambrian larger than a 'Dukedog', which replaced older designs including the 3206 'Barnum' class 2-4-0s. I don't know what (if anything) was needed to render the ex-Cambrian lines suitable for the 'Manors'.
How did a 43XX compare in size to a Dukedog? I get the impression that the 43XX rather regularly/
A 'Black 5' ( 44871 ) has worked regularly over the Cambrian, albeit in preservation. The loco had to run with a virtually empty tender to keep the tender axle loading down. IIRC, they worked from Bangor to Afon Wen only in steam days.
Doesn't it depend on your definition of "over the Cambrian"? IIRC 44871 hasn't worked north of Towyn as yet, although it was planned take over from 76079 had the Cambrian Coast Express continued.
It worked the last season of the Cambrian Coast Express in 2010 after 76079 had been sold to the NYMR.
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