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Bluebell Diesels

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by stephenvane, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    I've just realised it's been six years since the first 08 shunter arrived on the Bluebell, amid all the controversy of the Bluebell no longer being steam only.

    Since then another diesel shunter has arrived for use in the carriage works. The original 08 has gone, but has been replaced by another which has been put to many uses around the railway - rather than just being an item of plant to build the extension as was claimed at the time to appease the 'steam only' brigade.

    So it seems the Bluebell has got used to the convenience of having a diesel or two, and it looks like it will never again be a steam only railway. What are peoples thoughts on this? To me it makes sense, much easier and cheaper to have a diesel around for certain jobs.
     
  2. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Personally, if passenger trains are pulled only by steam loco's then i regard it as as a steam-only railway. Using diesels for shunting and engineering purposes, and rarely in sight of visitors, seems a pretty minor sacrifice compared to other (much more visible) changes required by running a heritage line in the 21st century.

    Chris
     
  3. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    If the public see's a shunter with rods on the wheels, they probably think it's a Bulleid Steam Locomotive :cool1: or a locomotive Bullied by Steam.
     
  4. m0rris

    m0rris New Member

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    Exactly, alot of the "preserved" diesel shunters out there aren't really preserved as they are still working to earn their survival and quite rightly so.

    As for the Bluebell going away from all steam, it was a shame when it happened (as I liked the idea of an all steam railway) but now it's passed it is good to see a railway adapting to stay on the top of it's game.
     
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Despite some of the prophesies at the time, the world did not stop turning! :)
     
  6. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    They do make use of other nontraditional methods on the Bluebell so why shouldn't the loco dept follow suit.
    Laser Dozers, Tampers and Road Rail excavators can all be seen at use on the line.
    I don't think any of those are traditional do you?
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's a bit of a grey area. The gronk is probably a bit marginal as "plant", but we've had such kit as Wickham trollies for ages (long before the gronk) - I guess if we truly wanted to preserve our heritage aspect, the PWay should travel to their work site using hand trollies?

    We also have long had an internal combustion locomotive preserved as a heritage (rather than engineering) item - the Howard petrol loco.

    Ultimately you have to strike a balance between heritage and practicalities. For example, we still do a lot of shunting using steam, not least because it preserves essential skills for the loco department. But let's say the C&W need a coach shunted over the inspection pit. It didn't get done during the weekly steam shunt. So do we (a) light up an engine and put another boiler heat cycle on the books? (b) Wait another week to shunt it, thus delaying the inspection (and potentially wasting money if paid staff can't work according to program) or (c) use a diesel? Sadly, pragmatism trumps heritage. It is also useful if - and let's pray this never happens - to have an immediate start engine to move vehicles were there ever to be a fire in the C&W works or the SP Traincare depot.

    So I guess they are here to say. I just hope that they are kept well out of sight; and aren't used on service trains (though even that has been breached once when there was an engine failure; the alternative would have been to rescue the passengers by bus I guess). I also pray that we don't have any incoming diesel charters when we are mainline connected - that would be a step to far (though ref. the diesels on the back thread - no doubt even that will happen).

    Tom
     
  8. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Does it work now?
     
  9. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Mid Hants regularly use diesels to shunt stock, as I type a class 33 is probably on its way to Alresford to shunt the service stock sitting at the bottom of my garden. This was very useful when Kitchen car 1973 caught fire in Alresford station, complete with on-board propane cylinders, and quick wittedand brave loco crew managed to get the thing away from the main building. We also had the big fire at Ropley, so unfortunately such incidents do happen, and an instant start loco could really be counted a necessity.
    As a very frequent visitor to the Bluebell in days past (mostly 1974-1984) and a less frequent one since (due to change in 2012) my purely personal opinion is that the use of a diesel to shunt stock in yards, or as a rescue engine does not really compromise the overall feel of the railway as a "steam railway".
     
  10. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    It wouldn't surprise me at all if some operator would seek to run a diesel-hauled charter through to Sheffield Park, and what is more, it would probably sell well, being "required mileage" for some enthusiasts who aren't necessarily keen on steam. After all, the class 73-hauled charter filled up, although it was admittedly only 3 carriages. Perhaps, if the tour in question was something like Pathfiner's "Buffer Puffers" which go all over the place and take all day to do so, the EG-SP and return section could be scheduled for outside normal Bluebell operating hours.

    Perhaps more to the point, unless the turning triangle is complete before the first steam-hauled charter runs work through, diesel haulage on the return leg will have to occur by necessity rather than choice, unless two locos are used - one for each direction.
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    (Talking about the Howard petrol loco)

    Yes, AFAIK. Though I don't know what the load limit is on our gradients. I think it is effectively a curio, certainly not a viable shunting loco. Which is basically why the C&W bought "Skippy".

    Yes, that's my feeling too - which is why I feel that by hook or by crook, we will see a diesel tour on the Bluebell, even if it is on the back of a steam tour or even pulling it in one direction.

    That said, I think we have bigger issues than turning engines for incoming tours, notably our short platforms.

    Tom
     
  12. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    On the occasion of the German Plandampf in 2005 there were three of the Bluebell's loco department members staying in the same hotel as a friend and myself in Neustadt Weinstrasse. I suggested to them that a Diesel would be a worthwhile acquisition for those odd shunting jobs in order to save lighting up, and the costs of doing it with steam. I couldn't have got a more violent reaction if I kicked them in the b******s. I was most profoundly assured that if a Diesel loco showed up on the Bluebell the entire loco department would resign. An 08 appeared less than a year later, but haven't heard as to how many loco dept. resignations there were as a result of this!
     
  13. Axe

    Axe Member

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    Of course it's going to happen, that's pretty obvious. Both diesel hauled and modern DEMUs will soon be running over Bluebell metals. Don’t forget the Sussex Branchline Weekend next Autumn, where one of the key attractions will be the visiting 2-car Thumper unit. That doesn't mean that Bluebell's own service trains cannot or will not normally continue to be exclusively steam hauled.



    If it remains a requirement that any steam hauled mainline arrival at East Grinstead must include a diesel locomotive in the consist, then that diesel will also run onto the Bluebell with the rest of the formation. In fact the diesel loco will be useful for shunting the visiting train (if required) because of its air-braking.



    Bluebell platforms are not an issue, as was explained on the Bluebell's Yahoo email group.

    Chris
     
  14. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Care to enlighten the rest of us?

    Steve B
     
  15. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    There's also the question of revenue - considering how much the extension has/will cost - not to mention the current ecoomic climate - every penny counts, and, while I would not remotely like to second guess the thinking of the Bluebell management, it is perhaps worth reflecting on what happened when the first through passenger trains ran to Swanage in 2009. UKRT ran through on April 1st with a pair of 66's T&T. Such was the demand that a repeat train was run the following day. Only a month later, the late lamented Past Time Rail ran the first through steam train - with Tangmere at the sharp end. I was there with camera on the climb out of Corfe Castle to witness this historic event, and although only a few weeks had lapsed wince the UKRT trains, the steam train looked pretty well loaded too. Had it been the other way round, (i.e. the first train been steam hauled) would any subsequent diesel hauled trains have sold so well? Possibly not. By running the diesel trains first, both the tour operators, the Swanage Railway and no doubt the Swanage shopkeepers did better financially.

    If the Bluebell managment decide likewise to allow the first through train to be diesel-hauled, it would probably sell out. The most likely contender would probably be Hastings DEMU 1001, which has already run into Imberhorne Cutting, and I would imagine it most likely that Hasings Diesels Ltd would like to run through to SP. In view of the past co-operation between this group and the Bluebell, wouldn't it seem rather mean-sprited to deny a request for such a tour? With 1001, there's also the logistics - a multiple unit can go off by itself for a couple of hours to be serviced without any extra motive power being involved. Running the first through train would need a lot of planning on the part of the Bluebell, even with the experienced staff they have available; 1001 would provide a useful learning curve before handling the greater complexity of a steam charter.

    Personally I have always supported the 100% steam approach for scheduled services at the Bluebell. I would love to book on the first through steam hauled train - and I guess this will be a sell-out - but if a couple of diesel powered trains run through first, I could see the sense of so doing, and wouldn't be upset at all, although I am aware that others may not feel so happy.

    Only my own thoughts and speculation, of course. Things may work out totally different. I'm just pleased that through trains to Sheffield Park, whatever the motive power, are hopefully only a few months away - it's been a long wait!
     
  16. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Charter Promoters!

    Just wait until Steam Dreams and Railway Touring Co get involved with trains to Sheffield Park. Anything could happen!
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Wont the first mainline train onto Bluebelle metals be the 66 when it hauls the wagons containing the rest of the clay capping to horstead to be dumped on spur ? or will gb railfreight provide a couple of 73's for this working its a pity that the wagons are not vac braked, i would love to see the S15 at the head of this train
     
  18. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Put a 73 on each end as brake translators and you could use the S15 to pull the train. The 73s are dual braked.
     
  19. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Nobody has yet produced an approved brake valve that can convert vacuum brake pipe to air brake pipe.
    However, if the Railtour stock was dual braked or Vacuum braked, the mainline loco could drop off at East Grinstead for a Bluebell loco to haul the tour to Sheffield Park.
    Or, use the E4 with the air braked coaches' distributors set for single pipe! How many coaches can an E4 haul?
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Certainly not the typical 12 or so of a railtour!

    The load limit is 150 tons rostered, but up to 185 tons if operationally required while still meeting section times. I can't remember what the limit is if time is no issue (e.g. for non-timetabled trains, if there is opportunity just to bed down and slog and not worry if it takes 20 or 25 minutes between stations) but it is something like 350 tons in the up direction.

    But in any case it ain't going to be a practical solution: apart from anything, you can't guarantee the E4 will always be available and we don't currently have any other available air braked engines. Beachy Head will be air-braked, but again single pipe only.

    Tom
     

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