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BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    That would indicate to me that a) 71000 either has a different oil system between plate and oiled faces so the oil is retained; or b) someone lost the globe for 71000; or c) a different oil is required? Given that 71000 was a 'higher' rated engine than 70013 it could have been expected for the globe to be on 71000.
    Would it not be advantageous to have the reservoir or was there a danger that it did not get checked for content often enough?
    Really, it is a good puzzle, and not the only one I am sure. My 1957 BR Driver handbook does not appear to refer to them at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
  2. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    I hope you are not getting any parts mixed up with 'Sandringham'!:oops:
     
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  3. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    How soon was 71000 considered a dead-end?
    Were all Brit upgrades/refinements rolled out to it?

    "I hope you are not getting any parts mixed up with 'Sandringham' "
    A McFootballer... can you imagine how contentious the naming of a set of Scottish footballers would have been?
     
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  4. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    Now there is a challenge!!!! instead naming after a warlord?
    (What is the difference!):Gagmewithaspoon:
     
  5. std tank

    std tank Member

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    An oil pot to items 9 & 10 SL/DE 21190 is quite correct for all the Std 4-6-2s. The pot on 70013 seems rather elaborate,though.
    Ian, you need to re-read section 12 about the oil lubrication.
     
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  6. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    std tank - The oil pot 9 & 10 SL/DE 21190 lubricates the centring gear shaft bushes - it does not provide oil for the bolsters. You can see the arrangement on this photo. These oilboxes are common to all Pacifics (6,7,8)

    DSC_0160.jpg

    Flying Phil - "Could the oil box have been added by a running shed to increase the amount of oil to the bearing - or reduce the number of times it had to be oiled?" I suspect that your latter point is correct.

    The BR Standards Instruction manual clearly states that oil fills the cavity which is present on the top of the pony truck bolster. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of the bolsters the other way up but this is what they look like - the domes face down when fitted.

    SL-DE-19673-3-2.jpg

    There is a circular recess on the reverse face to the domes of the bolsters. 4 off 1/4" diameter holes allow the oil to transfer to the face of the domes where there are 4 grooves - not extending to the bottom of the domes. The bolster cups also have 4 off 1/4" diameter holes to allow oil to transfer to the slides that the bolster cups sit on. So there's nothing really to restrict the oil apart from the fit of the bolsters in the bolster cups.

    Northern Steam - there is no globe oilbox shown on SL/DE/21190 and that drawing covers all of the oil boxes. The drawing seems to cover all Standard engines including Class 8 and the 9F Crostis

    Ian
     
  7. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect to 71000 but it has a look of 'didnt replace something we did not know needed replacing' - handy bit of brass is the first thing to disappear off scrapyard engines
     
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  8. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    Northern Steam - there is no globe oilbox shown on SL/DE/21190 and that drawing covers all of the oil boxes. The drawing seems to cover all Standard engines including Class 8 and the 9F Crostis

    Ian[/QUOTE]
    Well that sums it up then, it must be an addition for maintenance 'improvement'. And as it does not appear on drawings then 71000 would not have known of its possible introduction. As Sean said.
    Your description of the 'cups and saucers' certainly suggests that no long term lubrication was required. Just a top-up every shift etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
  9. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Error, sorry.
     
  10. std tank

    std tank Member

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    The photo shows the two feed oilbox 5SL/DE 21190. You need to have a good look at the rear of your lubrication drawing SL/DE 19990. This shows oilboxes 5 SL/DE 21190 and oil pots 9 & 10 SL/DE 21190. Have you read section 12 of the oil lubrication?
     
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  11. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    std tank - I think I see what you are getting at and thanks for pointing this out . I admit I am wrong - if I had read my own 194 page lubrication and pipework document, I would have seen the light!

    Our lubrication drawing is SL/DE/21994 as the notes show this was created for Lot 242 Class 6.

    This shows oilbox 9 and cover 10 to provide lubrication to the bogie bolster. Oilboxes 5 (4 off) lubricate the bogie centre slide and the pony truck centring gear bushes

    SL/DE/21190 shows that items 9 and 10 were added in October 1952. As I'm currently digitising the 1951 Instruction manual, I had got bogged down in the cavity system. I've got to move on to Supplements 1 and 3 and this may show the change

    What is interesting is that oilbox 9 is annotated "Slide Bar Oil Cup" and, presumably, is square in shape - different to the globe fitted to 70013
     
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  12. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    Was it added to 70013 perhaps in it's final overhaul (the final steam overhaul on BR)?
     
  13. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    What a relief to get that one sorted out! It is good to have knowledgeable folk on this forum, even better when they give you their advice and guidance as gentlemen.
     
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  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    A measure of how this project is coming along seems to be the no people coming out of the woodwork who are keen to not just 'point out' but also to' help out' as well:Watching:
     
  15. std tank

    std tank Member

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    The Slide Bar Oil Cup on the drawing was a Midland Railway Derby works design. They can still be seen today on the slide bars of the preserved LMS 4F0-6-0s, Jinty 0-6-0 tanks and, of course, the Midland Railway 1F 0-6-0 tank 41708.
     
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  16. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    @ianh1 Pop down the road to BH and have a shuftie at 1F?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. 69530

    69530 New Member

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    Not quite sure "coming out of the woodwork" is a good choice of words, how about "keen to help and assist"
    No offence meant.
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    I agree , didnt mean to call anyone worms or beetles, although i am a bit of a bookworm myself...
     
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  19. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    This weeks site news indicates another little milestone is approaching.
    It is quite interesting to see the buffer beam, which has had several temporary assemblies, all set for its proper fix.
    I nearly said final fix but you never know in the preservation world.
     
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  20. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    There was also an interesting item there, about the bogie stretcher, where they "think that it has stress relieved itself", thereby causing "a slight bow [to] develop[] along the side faces". I can definitely see stress relieving causing dimensional instability; I wonder how often this happens (in general, not this specific example), and isn't caught?
    Wise!

    Noel
     
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