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Britannias and 9Fs

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Hicks19862, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Just wondered if there are many (if any) interchangeable parts between the Britannia and 9F classes.

    Just asking as I had read that the concept for the 9F started off as a 2-8-2 version of the Britannia, and evolved into the 2-10-0 design.

    Also there is a resemblance between the two classes (at least above the running plate in my opinion)
     
    Hicks19862, Jan 28, 2019
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  2. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    The cylindres are not interchange-able.
    Centerdistance on 9Fs are two inches greater to clear between crosshead and front coupling pin.
     
    Hermod, Jan 28, 2019
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  3. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Surprisingly little, as Hermod says, the mounting plate part of the cylinders is different, indeed virtually nothing below the running plate is common ( some bits of piston/ valve gear maybe) and 80 percent of the boiler is different.

    Have looked in detail at the shelved BR 2-8-2 design and there would be quite a lot of commonality with a Brit., and for this reason I still find it odd that they didn't knock out a couple for ' assessment purposes' as, apart from the frames and driving wheels, all the components could have been 'Recycled' into other standards)
    You could also convert a 9F into a similar 2-8 -2 now, which might have a couple of contemporary operational advantages, it wouldn't be the same ' animal' as the shelved BR design , but it would do pretty much the same thing...
     
    class8mikado, Jan 28, 2019
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  4. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Very interesting thanks. Where did you find the info on the Standard 2-8-2? Thanks!
     
    Hicks19862, Jan 28, 2019
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  5. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Books By E.s.Cox, R.C Bond, Col Rogers on Riddles and various others, plus looking at copies of the drawings for Clans/ Brits/9f's which i have had passed to me by Clan Project people, and having my musings/ conclusions corrected on this forum by Std. Tank whose knowledge of BR standards is peerless.
     
    class8mikado, Jan 28, 2019
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  6. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    The Railway executive wanted new pacifics as first design in 1948 .

    If 9Fs had been constructed first ,it would have been very easy to make further versions that would have been suitable for all loading gauges and would not be mainline-banned due to flangeless drivers.
    First a 9F more or less:
    Second a very frugal and neat show no legs version.
    Flanged drivers (not shown),Krauss -Helmholz truck up front.
    Two inside cylinder compound makes it 10% more powerfull and some tons less mass.
    Would do 50 mph with no undue balance problems.
    Third a Mikado.With16feet 3inch fixed wheelbase all drivers can have flanges
    Fourth my favourite (and late in life ideal locomotive configuration of Cox and Riddles).A Caprotti-Webb compound that Chapelon would aprove
    and finally a labour goverment approved three-cylinder pacific
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Hermod, Jan 28, 2019
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  7. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    Hermod, Mar 12, 2019
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  8. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    The three-Caprotti-cylindered 4-8-0 will be more usefull than the Pacific and the Mikado so of they go.
    All You need is five feet drivers.
    The 4-6-0 is a modern Raven S3/B16 thing and the 2-8-0 looks cute as a two cylinder.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Hermod, Mar 13, 2019
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  9. peckett

    peckett Member

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    How about brake blocks ?
     
    peckett, Mar 13, 2019
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  10. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Could it run on NR?
     
    Allegheny, Mar 13, 2019
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  11. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for these interesting illustrations Hermod!

    I`d like the Witte smoke deflectors on that 9F! :)

    Knut
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    240P15, Mar 13, 2019
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  12. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    No reason why not, but expect that it would have to undergo the same kind of analysis and testing that the P2 has (and Tornado) to, indeed once the P2 has passed you could use the data plus that which was taken for 70013 to model its track dynamics quite well
     
    class8mikado, Mar 13, 2019
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  13. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    It will be easy to lower the aft hornblock a feet and the beauty of the 9F frame construction will make 50mm transverse fredom for trailing axle easy
    Lets crowd fund
    The ash pan can hold more than a Duchess.
    With trailing axle one feet lower it can hold much more.

     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Hermod, Mar 13, 2019
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  14. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Hermod, Mar 13, 2019
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  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Naah ..... too much adhesion. Howzabout a 4-4-4 ? ..... If you're absolutely set on coupled wheels in the first place! :rolleyes:
     
    30854, Mar 15, 2019
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