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Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 34007, May 13, 2008.

  1. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Other books that you should find useful are "The Bulleid Pacifics of the Southern" by CJ Allen and SC Townroe, "Bulleid Pacifics" by Brian Haresnape and "The Southern Pacifics, Bulleid's Radical Design" by Roger Mannion.
    I hope you do write a Bulleid pacific book. It would be good to also have updates about their performance and modifications in preservation if possible.
     
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  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    I Have Bulleid Power - the Merchant Navy Class, nearly everything mentioned thus far is in the Bibliography...
     
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  3. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Assuming it's the same Rodgers, his "Express Steam" is one of the few books to deal with Webb's compounds in an even handed way: acknowledging they were a dead end, but not exaggerating their problems or ignoring their merits and performance.

    RPSI, FfRS, TRPS, RERPS, RHDRA, WLLRPC
     
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  4. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Do we actually need another book about Bulleid because surely everything has been said on the subject, all you would get is just rehash of what's gone before? :confused:
     
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  5. nickt

    nickt New Member

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  6. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And if Simon thinks he’s taken some flack over the Edward Thompson book, he’d better not upset Bulleid fundamentalists. I’ve known some who were quite rabid in their support of the Master. :)
     
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Not mentioning any names of course.
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed but it's a good example of a great loco at the time it was built that turned into an equally great loco at the time it was rebuilt.
     
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  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’ll defend a Flat Top against all detractors but I’m mild mannered compared to some I’ve met. :)
     
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  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    That comment might be read in a kinder light if you hadn''t previously been very rude to Simon about his other work.

    However, if I were putting forward candidates, I'd like to hear more about some of the earlier CMEs, which have been discussed a little on the forum before, some of the LNWR's, LBSCR's etc. that have all sorts of reputations that may or may not be worthy.

    Obviously if they're of little interest to Simon but Bulleid is then that'll be the direction we go, and I'm sure it'll be interesting regardless!
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Do we need to take a Jubilee or Black 5 over the S&C again? It’s just a rehash of what’s gone before :confused:
     
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  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    If it comes from research conducted by @S.A.C. Martin then I'm sure we do. I don't think Simon does rehashes of what's gone before - it's not his style. Bring it on Simon - please.

    Peter
     
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  13. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    I was fascinated to read in the latest SLL update from the memories of Harry Frith...."A general repair would normally take around three weeks and there was an incentive or bonus scheme to encourage the various gangs to get the work completed within that time." Given that the boiler was replaced and all the motion/wheels refurbished that shows the effectiveness/efficiency of the railway workshops. I wonder what the fastest turnaround of a Bulleid Pacific was back in the 50/60's?
     
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  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Quite. There's a lot to be done by those with the time, energy and enthusiasm to bring a modern understanding of that inter-war and post-war generation of engineers, to take them and their work beyond the received wisdom of enthusiast convention.

    Though I've occasionally purchased them - Simon Lilley's excellent work on the class 33s is sitting on the shelf behind me - I often find the micro detailed work on individual engineers or their works over-powering. What might be as interesting as another biography of Bulleid, or the other major CMEs would be more of a parallel biography, with a chapter devoted to each of a number of CMEs.
     
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  15. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Drawn to controversy like a moth to a flame, Simon! I haven't read all the books referred to above let alone the no doubt voluminous material from the magazines. But from my point of view there are numerous interesting questions if the scope is drawn broader than a bio. For example

    The starting position of the SR, reading @Jamessquared post on another thread, and the need in 1941. Was it correctly specified and were 140 Pacifics the right answer to the right question?

    The civ eng and loading gauge constraints within which the design had to fit and the design compromises which were required in wartime conditions (I guess that is well-tilled soil but essential).

    Any evidence on performance and especially on availability. Duties rostered. Were there really an excessive number at the back of the shed or tootling around compared with the A3s or the Scots?

    What the locomen had to say about them. Books by/about Groome, Evans, Hooker, Peter Smith on the S and D experience, Nine Elms Loco etc etc.

    Jarvis---an assessment of the situation in the mid 50s ; what would have happened without rebuilding? Would the Southern have inherited a bunch of Brits and V2s from 1960? Would Bournemouth electrification have been accelerated?

    Very best of luck Simon.
     
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  16. Daddsie71b

    Daddsie71b Member Friend

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    To be honest, if this is an attempt to bring all of the above journals together to create the ultimate biog, then so be it. OVS is gone, Jarvis, Pocklington, Frith etc. Its all speculation. Enjoyed the company of Frith and Pocklington, just wished I had listened a little more.
     
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  17. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    I think we all know what has been said about Bulleid and his locomotives. Simon's forte is to unearth what has not been said on the subject. You can be sure there is much to be uncovered by forensic research if Simon is willing to take it on. But I would not expect to see the results for some years, he is that thorough. It sounds an exciting project to me

    Peter
     
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  18. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

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    I know, but good innit. :)
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed. I don't see the problem. We won't be doing the research or the writing. We won't be marketing it or trying to at least balance the books on costs. Why would anyone see it as a negative thing to do?

    Is it not one of the most unusual stories of all time about steam? If someone 'arrived from Mars' tomorrow and saw Braunton and City of Wells side by side in a shed somewhere there is no way that they would think that these were the same class of locomotive. So a considered and well researched reappraisal of the class is possibly exactly what is needed.

    And now we have the benefit of different owners who have restored and maintain both versions. That means there is a new resource of knowledge that can be tapped into on all the first hand technical, engineering and reconstruction that has been necessary. That's a whole new chapter in its own right and a good excuse for the author to visit all the examples of the class that are around! :)
     
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  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Simon can have a whole bunch of photos showing the staying pattern around the thermic syphons and fire hole door if he hangs on for the next issue of Bluebell News!

    Tom
     
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