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Cath Ex Victoria to Bath and Bristol - 10/12/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Out http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50728/2016/12/10/advanced

    Return http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50732/2016/12/10/advanced

    No path back to Southall for the diesel.

    Out is via Kenny O. , Reading and Salisbury

    Return is via Swindon
     
  2. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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  3. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    I see from the SD web-site that Braunton is now rostered for this trip, with Royal Scot going to Minehead on Sat 17th instead.
     
  4. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    I wonder if there is another gauging problem which caused the swap?
     
  5. fb1969

    fb1969 New Member

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    First post, be gentle!

    I was booked on this trip but received a call today to say that Network Rail had told them to drop a carriage, so I am no longer on the trip.
     
  6. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    Did Steam Dreams say why?

    James
     
  7. fb1969

    fb1969 New Member

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    Just as above, that they'd been told to lose a carriage. I only booked it a couple of weeks ago, so last on first off - fair enough in that respect.
     
  8. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see that the old GWR practice of slip coaches has been revived!
     
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  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    They tried that on the Duchess ecs last Saturday but it didn't go down too well. :)
     
  10. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Welcome to the Forum.

    The only explanation that I can come up with for this late change is probably down to the loco swap that has happened to this trip.
    Originally 46100 Royal Scot was rostered for this excursion. 34046 Braunton is now rostered.
    The Royal Scot's (tractive effort 33,150 lbf) are a little bit more powerful than the Bulleid Pacific's (tractive effort 31,000 lbf) and Network Rail are now more strict about train loadings for Steam Locomotives after the review of ML Steam operations which was undertaken due to the serious incidents with West Coast Railway Company Ltd.
     
  11. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    The change of motive power won't be the reason, the load limits are not set down for the power of individual engines but for a general power classification. Both a light pacific and a Scot are in the same power band and there is more to assessing the power output than tractive effort.
    This may help explain the current rules

    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/Guidelines-for-steam-train-lengths-and-loads/

    Perhaps it's something to do with a shortage of stock after the unfortunate incident at Mitre Bridge.
     
  12. fb1969

    fb1969 New Member

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    Thanks, I've been a reader for a few years.

    I was guessing it may be connected to the loco change, but good to see the facts and figures. I received the tickets six days ago, so it was a very late decision.
     
  13. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for that John.
    Could well be a stock problem then or Network Rail don't trust Bulleids as much as Royal Scot's....

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
     
  14. parowozy

    parowozy New Member

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    Network Rail do not set the loadings for steam locomotives - they barely know their own network let alone what load each type of steam loco can haul on it! The loading limits posted above were determined by a consortium of 'industry experts' overseen by NR as the infrastructure owners as steam hauled charter trains aren't their only customers that use it...

    It is the TOC that determine the load for a steam charter, as it is the TOC that pays any consequential delays caused by an overloaded train. Unless, of course, NR have to set a length limit due to what the network can physically take (length between signals, loops etc). It is interesting to note that DBC say they will review the merits of each operation and determine their own loads accordingly. Perhaps this is because they are used to running long, heavy freight trains and they feel they do not need to be policed.
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think they do set load limits for the leaf fall season, October to December. There was some protest over it this year saying the season was to long.
     
  16. parowozy

    parowozy New Member

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    True, I believe NR imposed the duration of the leaf fall season (or rather the duration of perceived risk from adhesion issues caused by leaf fall, which is in line with the industry season norm) but the reduced loadings during this period was still determined by the loadings committee. The whole concept of the resultant loads table was such that any steam locomotive that comes to a stand can restart its load again.
     
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  17. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    No ! Royal Scot needs a little bit of work which can't be completed in time, hence the swap.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  18. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for clearing that up! I wonder if it's the reverser as this caused problems at the MHR Autumn Gala?
     
  19. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit puzzled by the request to drop a coach from this tour since I thought it had been established from various sources (RTT and UK Steam) that there will be an oily diesel chugging away on the back. The load limits stated in the document are for UNASSISTED steam, so I would have thought if the diesel was there it would be permissible to have an extra coach or two. Is this tour now going to be unassisted? I doubt it somehow since letting a Bulleid out at this time of year with a heavy train seems to be considered a risk (Tangmere incident on Martin Mill Bank springs to mind)
     
  20. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    There are at least 2 other possibilities, already mentioned:
    1) a physical limit on the length of the train at some point during the day, e.g. restricted platform or siding length;
    2) fewer coaches available to the TOC, following the problems with a coupling earlier in the week - one or more vehicles may be stopped pending inspection.
    We sometimes forget that it's not just about the loco and footplate crew...
     
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