CathEx to Stratford - 1/07/18

As mentioned elsewhere looks like this is diesel hauled

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55062/2018/07/01/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55064/2018/07/01/advanced

Timed for 95mph and no water stops or turning movement from Stratford

 

If so, that does at least trigger a small part refund/credit note, unlike tomorrow's "show pony" trip to Worcester?

 

Now confirmed as Diesel haulage on SD website timings page:

"* Unfortunately we have not been permitted to run with steam due to a recently imposed Network Rail Steam Ban. Owing to the increased fire risk due to the dry weather, no steam hauled charters have been permitted to travel on the London Midland Region over which this tour is scheduled to go. Our trip will go ahead as planned with our vintage carriages and same level of service as if we were hauled by steam but with a vintage diesel locomotive instead, likely to be a Class 47. "

 

Love the way they stress the "vintage" diesel and the "vintage" carriages - trying to make the best of a bad job I guess.

 

Extreme weather demands extreme solutions. This is not a extreme solution but a fudge. There is enough notice to postpone the trip for customers and operators. NR have put a ban on steam so operators should play fair and postpone the steam tour.

 

Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

As an example if me and the wife were travelling, I would be peeved if there was no steam (although its painfully clear why not) she would be peeved as she would be missing out on her posh meal and a day out if they cancelled it.

Its a risk you take when booking in summer, if its too high a risk don't book - simple's really!

As for enough time, I am can imagine you get clobbered for charges on catering etc if they cancel days before the event, what are the caterers going to do with food for hundreds of people which they will have ordered from their suppliers, at such short notice? Plus if the contract with WCRC states the same as the T&C's i.e. that it will be operated by diesel if operational conditions made necessary WCRC can honour that so the promoter will likely have to pay for the train if they choose to cancel as they would be breaching the contract.

Even the show pony option incurs additional costs (extra loco, extra crew) that someone (I assume the promoter) is footing and thus is coming off the bottom line?

Ultimately these are commercial businesses....

 

And commercial businesses have INSURANCE.... Or should have!

 

Why would any insurer pay out on something that is entirely covered through the T&C's that the consumer willingly signed up to when they entered the contract (which would no doubt be the key principle to premium setting and adherence to by the operator a requirement thereof), if the operator is going to claim based entirely on the personal whim of each customer to set aside the T&C's the premium would be huge?

Honest question to which I confess I don't know the answer, has anyone ever successfully claimed (on in fact unsuccessfully) regarding such matters, I assume as its mentioned so much on here there must be case law which answers one way or the other, otherwise its just nothing?

 

Seems little different to me to Lords Cricket Grounds terms

G) On no occasion is play guaranteed and on no occasion will any money, paid for the admission of any person to Lord’s Ground, be returned other than in respect of days for which a ticket-refund scheme applies, the details of such scheme being printed on the reverse of all tickets.

 

I seem to recall, when this forum debated precisely this issue ad infinitum (and beyond!) in a previous thread, some individuals claimed to have been able to negotiate refunds/credits, I am sure RTC was mentioned for one. But I don't want to reignite that debate, so won't comment further!

 

It is theoretically possible to insure against any risk.

Whether any underwriter would be prepared to insure against substitution of one type of traction unit with a different type of traction unit in practice, is worth asking of an insurance specialist.
It may be that the premium per passenger is higher than the ticket price, so effectively uninsurable.

 

How many tours have been cancelled or postponed when it has been known in advance that a loco will not be available nor a suitable replacement found. I have seen this many times on UK Steam Info - Cancelled or postponed due to unavailability of loco x or replacement. Principle seems the same.

 

I think @GWR4707 makes an important point, which is that you cannot assume that everyone's reasons for purchase are identical. Seen through a steam fan's blinkers, removing steam might seem an obvious reason to cancel the tour., But if what you thought you were buying was a nice day out in Stratford with a posh meal on the way, the promoter cancelling may be a good way to ruin your special day (and conceivably leave you with costs you can't recover, such as a hotel, pre-booked travel to start point, day of leave taken from work etc etc. If what you are after is the day out, running the tour diesel hauled on the day planned is probably preferable to cancelling and offering a different date.

Ultimately, clarity in Ts&Cs from the vendor is important: after that, it is simply down to consumers as individuals to decide what part of the itinerary they consider of value, and therefore to what level of risk about non-delivery of that aspect they wish to accept.

Tom

 

Extreme weather? Summers of 1976 and 1995 were but not this year. In fact not even as hot as last June

 

Extreme, I agree. We have had extremely disappointing summers for four years and forgotten what normality is. But maybe it depends where you are. In the north we have had two months of very dry weather so one week of hot is enough to trigger fires on Saddleworth Moor and elsewhere. For the land to be yellow so early in the season is pretty unusual. The summer as a whole--- wait and see.

 

I agree with all that, but I would add that it would be reasonable for a promoter to offer more favourable terms for cancelling a booking and credit against a future one, if the trip as eventually run is significantly different from what was offered at the time of booking, than the standard terms that apply when customers cancel for other reasons.

 

That's a fair comment too. The way things operate at the moment the customer is almost unwitting in the shared risk the terms of their booking creates. Terms and conditions can only cover so much but must not create disclaimers from normal statutory rights. Express terms that may restrict redress are supposed to be given greater prominence so that informed choices can be made withou ploughing through "small print". It is perhaps unlikely that a "casual" customer would have any appreciation of potential fire risk or consequences but equally may be dissatisfied to have a diesel involved, necessary though that may be.
Ultimately it is a question of the seller "doing the right thing" and not simply aiming to minimise any reduction in profit. I am aware that both promoters and loco owners carry insurance for unforseeable circumstances, much in the way international cricket matches are insured to give sliding refund scales based on the amount of play lost to bad weather. These terms are made clear before booking. This could perhaps be offered for steam trips such that purchasers could be aware of the potential for compensation should diesel intervention prove necessary? A bit like the sliding "delay repay" only "diesel repay" instead? Purchasers could always opt not to claim too if they were not ultimately concerned.