Charles Wytock/Sinembe

Thanks for that. I am an annual visitor to the L&B when we take our holiday in Ilfracombe and follow it and always link my blog entries on the L&B to the present day society.

I have posted several more pictures and vids of my own and some net finds of the past.

http://steammemories.blogspot.co.uk/

 

I have added a few more pics and vids of The Lynton and Barnstaple for anyone interested at

http://steammemories.blogspot.co.uk/

 

Unfortunately I was unable to attend the L & B Gala this weekend so I was very pleased to find that the website ( http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/ ) now displays a short film made by Charlie O'Mahoney.

About halfway through we see a clip of Charles Wytock in steam.

Thanks Charlie for that film, giving us a taste of what we missed!

Mike Pearce

 

Here's a shot of her making Lyd look small. I don't know if she left the station over the weekend, but it will be interesting to see how she performs on the hill!

 

Charles Wytock hauled a 3 coach private test train from Killington Lane at the end of Sunday operations, with Isaac on the rear providing vacuum brake assistance, as CW is not fitted yet. It was a spirited climb up the hill, with plenty of power to spare.

 

That's good news, I read somewhere that she will be paired at Statfold with 'Isibutu' at some point. Is there truth in this idea?

Ben

 

No truth as yet, but you never know.....in fact they were together for one day in April when Charles Wytock was in transit from Middlesbrough to Woody Bay, and was temporarily unloaded at Statfold Grain Store so that Harrogate could be transferred to South Tynedale using the same lorry.

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe a great lineup will be in order once the third of the trio is restored to working order!

 

A still from one of my videos from the Sunday of the L&B gala. Shows Charles Wytock climbing up the final straight to Woody Bay on the members special, with Lyd providing the brakes on the rear (I like to think she was banking ), superb noise from both, especially from CW! Currently uploading a full video of the event to YouTube, and with any luck it should go live sometime tonight!

 

And here is said video!

 

A brilliant video of a great weekend!

 

Ta very much

 

Shame Lyd has the Garnedd tunnel roof profile, it doesn't look quite right compared to the original roof profile.

 

Appologies for this question but I am getting a bit confused, are there three or four Tongaat 4-4-0T Bagnalls in the UK?

I have noted four names mentioned in this topic?

A Boulie
Sinembe
Charles Wytock
Isibutu

Many thanks,
Gareth

 

There are four in the UK.
A Boulle and Sinembe are owned by Graeme Walton-Binns and are near the end of their restoration in an industrial unit in Middlesbrough.
Isibutu is at Statfold Barn (and is really Egolomi but was later called Robert Armstrong. The Isibutu nameplate was put on it from another Bagnall 4-4-0T (now scrapped) called Isibutu, at the point of leaving South Africa). It's in working order. Isibutu now carries the boiler off W J Mirlees (now scrapped)
Charles Wytock (really Charles Whytock - the nameplates fitted during restoration in Middlesbrough are incorrect) is at Woody Bay. In working order.
Two others survive: Simpola in Texas and Mona in South Africa (derelict and in pieces).
I hope that clears things up (or have I just confused you even more with all the other names?!)

 

Thanks for that Buzzard - it does make sense.

Regards,
Gareth

 

With apologies for the amount of it, I've inserted below the text from an article written 3-4 years ago by David Cairns in Durban who researched the history of the Bagnalls supplied to S Africa in some detail . I don't think it conflicts with anything stated above but adds a bit more background. (I'd add that it was written before Charles Whytock was completed and moved to the L&B)

The Tongaat Sugar Company had a supply relationship with WG Bagnall of Stafford England which endured over 40 years and involved 14 locos. In fact only one of Tongaat’s steam locos bought new was not a Bagnall and that was the first loco the company purchased which was a Fowler named ‘Hope’. (Three additional steam locos were acquired second hand when Tongaat acquired the Umhloti Valley Central Sugar Company).
According to the Sandstone Estates website, the first three of Tongaat’s 14 Bagnalls, (with the exception of the first which was a 2-4-0, all 4-4-0 tank locos) were works numbers 1800 of 1906, 1837 of 1907 and 1929 of 1910 named ‘Tongaat’, ‘Success’ and ‘Repeat’ respectively. These had cylinder sizes 9” x 14”. All three locos were eventually scrapped by Tongaat (although some sources allege ‘Tongaat’ was sold to Rustenburg Platinum Mines when their system opened in the late twenties), ‘Success’ reportedly in 1948.
The next 11 locos all had larger cylinder sizes – 10” x 15” and were numbered and named as follows:
2287 of 1926 – ‘Sinembe’
2342 of 1928 – ‘Mona’
2374 of 1929 – ‘Isibutu’
2471 of 1932 – ‘Wewe’
2479 of 1933 – ‘Tongaat’
2522 of 1935 – ‘Simpola’
2599 of 1939 – ‘WJ Mirrlees’
2627 of 1940 – ‘A Boulle’
2647 of 1941 – ‘Edward Saunders’
2819 of 1946 – ‘Charles Whytock’
2820 of 1946 – ‘Egolomi’ (subsequently renamed ‘Robert Armstrong’)
A distinguishing feature of many Bagnalls narrow gauge locos including the Tongaat ones was that they were built with a so called marine (circular) firebox. This made maintaining the fire and clearing the firebox of ash a more difficult task than normal. Nevertheless the fact that Tongaat kept going back for more is indicative that the locos had their advantages.
In trying to account for the fate or current location of the Tongaat Bagnalls, as late as 1963 with the exceptions of no 2471 ‘Wewe’ and no 2522 ‘Simpola’ (explanation……..)all 11 of this class were present. There is speculation that ‘Wewe’ was to be the subject of an experiment for conversion to diesel power. There is evidence of parts being ordered for this purpose but no evidence of the work being undertaken. From boiler records it has been established that the original boiler from ‘Wewe’ was sold to Rhodesia in 1951 but the rest of the loco remains unaccounted for. Its most likely fate was the scrapping torch in the early sixties.
‘WJ Mirrlees’ was in a derelict condition in 1964 and probably was scrapped.
A loco named ‘Tongaat’ but carrying works no 2342 i.e. ‘Mona’ was donated to the Durban City Council who plinthed it in Bulwer Park in September 1967. In 1992 this loco was moved to Midmar Dam but following the demise of the Midmar Historical Village project was removed to Inchanga Nursery where the frame and running gear reside with the boiler being stored at Mason’s Mill in Pietermaritzburg.
In October 1966, a loco named ‘Edward Saunders’ but bearing the works number 2287 i.e. ‘Sinembe’ was donated to a children’s playground at Maidstone, later being acquired by a UK purchaser and moved to the Welsh Highland Railway where it arrived in 1994.
‘Charles Whytock’ was placed on display at the company offices at Maidstone but moved to Prospecton in around 1976 at the inception of the industrial estate there. It was returned to Maidstone in 1981 but also acquired by a UK purchaser and moved to the Welsh Highland Railway in 1994 along with ‘Sinembe’.
‘Edward Saunders’ itself i.e. works number no 2647 was in use as a stationary boiler at the mill until withdrawn in 1968. It was scrapped in 1978.

5 of the Tongaat Bagnall locos were sold to Sezela: ‘Sinembe’ (‘Isibutu’), ‘Tongaat’, ‘Simpola’, ‘A Boulle’ and ‘Robert Armstrong’ (‘Egolomi’). Because of the habit of the sugar companies to swop parts around on the locos , although carrying the name plate ‘Sinembe’ this loco also bore works number 2374 so to the purist was actually ‘Isibutu’!
‘Isibutu’ and ‘Tongaat’ were scrapped at Sezela in 1976.
Four of the Bagnalls were eventually returned to the UK and one (‘Simpola’) went to the USA and currently resides on the Bucher Estate, Hempstead, Texas, condition unknown. As far as can be ascertained, the four locos returned to the UK are as follows: works numbers 2287 (‘Sinembe’), 2627 (‘A Boulle’ (after a sojourn as a stationary boiler on a farm in Himeville), 2819 (‘Charles Whytock’) and works no 2820 ‘Egolomi’ renamed ‘Robert Armstrong’ and now even more confusingly carrying ‘Isibutu’s name plate!
The first three of the four belong to Mr Graeme Walton-Binns and are currently under restoration at Cargo Fleet in Yorkshire.
2820 upon its return to the UK prior to 1972 first went to the Knebworth Park Railway but later spent many years at Toddington on the North Gloucestershire Railway. After a visit to the West Highland Railway (Porthmadog) in 2007 during which a troublesome regulator valve was encountered, the loco was taken directly to Statfold Barn Railway in Warwickshire for repairs. Subsequently the loco was sold to Graham Lee of Statfold Barn and therefore ‘Isibutu, neé ‘Egolomi’ and sometime ‘Robert Armstrong’ now resides in operational condition in the loco’s home county of the builders, Staffordshire.

 

Here are photos taken this year of the four surviving Tongaat Bagnalls in the UK. A Boulle and Sinembe were photographed in April, and Charles Wytock and Isibutu in September.

 

Simembe looks really stunning in red. I wonder if the different chimney is a recent replacement, or was changed in South Africa. I think it's an improvement on the chimneys carried by the others, that look a little 'stumpy' to my mind

 

The reason why they had the stumpy stovepipes is that they were modified in South Africa to carry spark arrestors, so the later engines weren't supplied with a fancy chimney that then had to be hacked about. I'll attach a photo showing the type of chimney used in service and you will see what I mean! Sinembe has been returned to "as supplied" condition, with its more conventional chimney, and the rear bunker added at Tongaat removed and replaced with a side bunker.