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CME 2023

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Oswald T Wistle, Jan 6, 2023.

  1. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Sadly this shows how attitudes to risk have changed over the last few years and why we now book on so few steam trips. I would have thought that with so few other trains on the WCML on Saturday that would have been taken into consideration as the risk to other trains by line side fire delay were almost non existent. So we do indeed now stay at home
     
  2. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    Without wishing to prolong the diesel on back debate any longer (which has been done to death infinitely on here) - this is a most bizarre post. The risk from fire isn't just delay minutes (although that can be expensive) - it is damage to equipment, neighbouring properties, in the fells possibly numerous acres of precious wildlife habitat in the middle of nesting season, crops - the risk to fire fighters themselves who are have to put it out for what is a leisure activity! Are we that blinkered by diesels that we are forgetting the risk posed by the fire breathing monster on the front?

    Yes, communication needs to be better, yes 46115 appears to have got away with it up the S&C - but it hasn't rained since May 9th here in Mid-Wales and several hillsides have already gone up, please don't play down the risk of fire.
     
  3. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    If you seriously think that it doesn't matter starting a fire, because there's not much rail traffic about, then you should think again.

    Perhaps staying at home - permanently - is your best course of action.
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    Obviously you haven’t seen the volume of traffic on the WCML on a Saturday but that’s not the point. Near to where I live there is a field of ripening oilseed rape and several of wheat and Barley all adjacent to the WCML and all tinder dry. If you’ve ever witnessed a field fire you would know it can spread faster than you can outrun it. If operators adopted your attitude there would soon be no steam to travel on at all.
     
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  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Not certain how I feel about such a spiteful closing remark. Rather unbecoming I think. And as for 12 people at the last count who chose to give the post a 'like', words fail me.

    What we can't ignore is the fact that the lineside is now full of technology. You only have to look at the way that thieves target out of the way locations to 'acquire' cabling and the like. If that catches alight then it takes quite a while to sort out the impact. (We all remember 777 in the Doncaster area.)

    Sadly, it seems as though Network Rail is twitchy about anything that might affect its system like buckled track because of heat or a stray ember that might set alight its own infrastructure and land (that it could do much, much better to maintain). Those it looks to hold responsible - operators and loco owners - are therefore on a hiding to nothing.

    All we can ask is that nobody chases shadows over this business and that information is shared readily in advance. On that there are few set ups that do a good job in that respect.
     
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  6. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    Agree, @Big Al, as much as I appreciate @J Shuttleworth contributions here, especially when he sheds some reality on some of the wild speculation that can occur, the last comment was unnecessary. We all want insight from operators, promoters and those 'in the know' on this forum, it aids discussion, personal attacks no.
     
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  7. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    James, can you tell us something please. What was the Network Rail Fire Risk Status on Saturday? If it was Green and and there was a lineside fire attributed to the Scot, would they take action against you as a TOC as they'd effectively OK'd Steam Running? We have no idea what the operational requirements are as no-one ever tells us. Would I be right in thinking that you are expected to carry out a risk assessment on a daily basis or possibly on a train by train basis taking the conditions on the day into account?
     
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  8. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    Stupid response to a West Coast initiative to reduce any possible lineside fire on the day.
     
  9. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Couldnt agree more Steve,what a stupid person.
     
  10. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are probably right though I hardly go out on main line trips anyway
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Not quite the landscape of Cumbria. Get real, it wasn't that dry and parched. Too much greenery. Getting silly and boring now.
     
  13. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    I think many of us have regarded this topic as "silly and boring" for many years now but it still hasn't stopped you banging on about it at every opertunity:(.

    Just saying.

    Peter
     
  14. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    When you spend as much money as we do why shouldn't I? And I do actually take the time to post reports and timings about the trains we travel on and pass on information I still get from people in the know. But unlike you don't get personal. Just saying.
     
  15. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    You would kill the goose that lays the golden egg just because you think you are entitled to 24 carat…
     
  16. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I have been walking in the Dales and Lakes in the last month and locally around North Leeds. We have had nothing much above 20 degrees yet (that changes this weekend), so it all looks green but underneath it is as dry as a bone, amazingly so after the March and April we had. I think conditions are marginal.
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You know my view. But with 2023 comes 2023 restrictions and risk assessments that will always take decisions one way only. I accept that as I'm sure do many others.

    What I find much harder to accept is the manner in which key information is (not) shared when it is known. By shared, I don't mean on here but with the people who pay. In that I find WCRC to be the worst 'offender' if that's the right word and in respect of the most recent CME, that I was not on and is what this thread is all about, I have sympathy with @Shireman as right up to the day there was no indication of a Plan B.

    If someone now says that on the Friday Network Rail made it clear what was expected and of course people couldn't be told at that late stage then fine. But I take silence to mean that this probably isn't what happened. We knew the weather many days ahead, by the way.

    Same old record? Yes, but it is a specific 'soundtrack' that is being repeated and I never take kindly to operators who by omission, through arrogance or for whatever reason treat the customer as a commodity without expectations - or in the case of what we are talking about, hope!
     
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  18. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    That’s a bit harsh, I don’t know if it’s the same for the rest of the country but on my recent visit to the West Highland Line one of the drivers told me they quite often don’t know about requiring diesel assistance until the morning of the run. It works the other way too when a quick decision is made to run steam only after overnight rain
     
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Just fair, I think, not harsh and the 'last minute' point was the one I made. The West Highland situation is rather different and specific as I understand it and ultra caution has always been the watchword up there for valid reasons of the environment and access, to think of just two factors.
     
  20. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I like to live in 2023 and I’m quite happy ‘to get real’ whilst I appreciate you might spend a fair old bit of cash in pursuit of your hobby can you not understand that there might be reasons why certain things change at the last minute and why they might not be able to be communicated in time?
    Can you also not understand why someone like Mr Shuttleworth might not want to come into his office one morning and have a barrage of complaints regarding ‘your steam train set fire to my field, I want some money’?
    On another thread you’ve mentioned about 60007 being reduced to ‘a show pony’ do you not consider things like conservation and ownership wishes?
    You can sound like a very spoilt child at times.
     

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