County Donegal Railcars

The attached is a link to a local news story

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Diesel-commuter-trains-plan-to.5728061.jp

It is good to see at long last that some thought is being given to restoring the County Donegal railcars. I have to admit though that whilst I would like to see the railcars restored and they would be great for out of season use etc I am not convinced that commuters will flock to them no matter how well rebuilt as we are still looking at a 50 year old bit of kit. Would commuters want to travel on refurbished 50 year old buses?

A few years ago when the Island appeared to be flush with money to waste on capital projects I would have expressed how that such a service could been a precursor to more modern units if the demand was there but I see that as extremely unlikely now. But even if the railcars are only used out of season or to supplement the current steam service it would be good to see them being restored

 

I remember travelling on them in either 1989 or 1990. They were not normally in passenger service at the time, used for p/w work etc., but were pressed into service when one of the steam locos failed.

 

I could see them doing an evening service in the shoulders of the season but not real commuting. Most of the stations have no parking facilities nearby.

Anyway todays Financial Times has on page 3 that a dispute with the UK leaves them with a £30,000,000 budget hole on a population of 75,000. I was going to write that that kills it. But by Gordon Brown's standards, £400 per head aint really rocking it.

In my view, based on a recent visit, they have good bus services with modern buses. Where they suffer is a real lack of customer focus from some of transport staff.

 

The hole is roughly £50million year one, £100million thearafter that is after another recent £40million reduction. . Basically it is just in excess of 20% of the Government's income.

Other taxes will rise but budgets and capital expenditure will be cut and possobly fairly drastically and it would not surprise me to see the Railway's take a bit hit. Money could be saved by introducing flexible working patterns rather than fixed 9 to 5 Monday to Friday contracts. If not you wonder if their will be a less frequent service at weekends, later starts etc to cut down on overtime hours. Maybe they might even welcome volunteers!

I also expect that unless private money is put up we can look forward to several years of only having a minimum amount of essentail stock to run the service. In terms of locos that probably means any three from No 4, No 10s to 13. So if you want o see much variation etc I would book to come next year if they have an enthusiasts week as I can not see time & money being spent on Caledonian being kept in running order when it is not part of the core fleet. We are also unlikley to see either of the smaller engines restored anytime so.

 

On my first visit to the IoM in, I think, 1969, we were staying at Port St Mary, and set out for a day riding behind steam. We were therefore a bit disappointed when the train to Douglas turned out to be a Donegal railcar. Still, according to the timetable, after a spell in Douglas we could catch a train to Peel, so naturally we thought that would be steam. Unfortunately on returning to the station, the Peel train turned out to be the same railcar that had brought us up from the south ;-(

It was another day when we managed finally to ride behind steam, taking the wonderful route up the west coast to Ramsay. Much more enjoyable than the railcar !

So I am afraid I have a bit of a prejudice against the old rattlebuses. Even then they were hardly state-of-the-art in terms of passenger comfort. Obviously they are worth preserving for their historical interest, but I don't really think they have much future as commuting vehicles.

Richard

 

Aaah, it all brings back distant-ish childhood memories of riding railcar 12 (at least, I think it must have been 12) on the late, lamented Shane's Castle Railway. Happy days. Sadly, I don't have any photos thereof. Hard, as you say, to imagine them on commuter services, but a lot of fun to ride I thought.

Richard Huss

 

Hate to be pedantic but the Peel/ Ramsey lines closed in 1968 should must be earlier than '69. Sounds a bit like the old winter service from about 1960 to 1965 where they used to operate the whole network using one engine in steam or the railcars (although the Ramsey line tended to be closed for the winter in the early 1960s).

On a different tack, the railcars would be most useful at the moment as there is only one 'train set' out at the moment based at Douglas so if you live in the South (like me!), there's only one train you can go up to Douglas on if you want to do a round trip. I can understand why there's only one train on (low season, reduce costs etc even if they are paying for the stations/ gates to be manned for 4 trains to pass through all day!) but the railcars would be a more economical/ convenient way of having a 2nd train out.

 

Unfortunately I wasn't keeping a diary in those days and the few monochrome photos I took don't have dates on them. It was in the Ailsa period and I am pretty sure it was during the summer - perhaps 1968.

Richard

 

I can understand why especially mid week but it is the same at weekends and for half term next week.

I have to admit it caught me out as when the wife was ill I was going to take the youngest kid into Douglas for an hour from Ballasalla. I was quietly sitting waiting for the train only to be informed that the 2:50 was not running in October. I was going to complain that is not what the time tables displayed on the platform said until i noticed they were still the 2008 timetables. It says all you really want to know about the railways in the IoM really

 

The railcars should certainly be restored for their historic interest. They kept the Isle of Man Railway going in the early 1960's when they ran virtually the entire service from the end of September to June. They were remarkably reliable and with a goods van coupled between them carried the parcels traffic as well as the few passengers around. The typical day comprised a morning return trip from Douglas to Pt Erin, then Douglas to Peel over lunch time and a further Pt Erin trip in the afternoon. In the summer of 1965 they ran three return trips a day to Peel and also a short working from Peel to St Johns. The best three locos covered the Pt Erin line and one loco did Douglas to Ramsey then a return trip Ramsey to St Johns and finally from Ramsey through to Douglas. The Douglas station pilot struggled to Peel and back with a couple of carriages in the afternoon.
They would have some attraction as heritage vehicles but not as a modern commuter train, although could provide a stand-by set if a modern train was out of action for a few days.

 

Yes it would be wonderful to see the railcars back in running order, but sadly with the news of the massive cuts coming to the Island (its been on the BBC news all day today), the chances now must be very slim of any further work being undertaken. I am becoming concerned about the effect these cuts will have on the railways, god forbid we return to the mid 70's when we had the steam railway running between Pt.Erin and Castletown ( later Ballasalla), and the MER running from Douglas to Laxey , those were desperate times when the future hung in the balance. It would appear that the days of wine and roses are coming to an end for the Island, it will suffer greatly with these cuts and with the tourist industry in terminal decline things do not appear too be good for the railways.
Hopefully the investment made so far will protect them, but as has already been raised, i think we will see a very basic service with perhaps trains running during the week, as i know from talking to the staff on the railway, the weekends are very expensive to operate due to overtime payments.

 

Don't forget you can still travel on a County Donegal Railcar at the Fintown Railway in County Donegal itself. Railcar 18 is an original diesel railcar of the County Donegal Railway and dating from 1940. It does need a little shunter to help it along the track, however. See http://www.antraen.com/index.php

 

Well maybe they could think of bringing in modern working practices such as shift working rather than strict 9 to 5 monday to fRidat hours. Seems to work OK in respect of the buses.

Or how about being really novel and having some volunteer crews. From the attitude of the driver on Sunday he would not miss driving.

 

I think that the IoM railway has a different ethos - until 1965 it was a year round public transport facility and at one time had a general manager (Shearer I think was the name) who had a reputation for hating enthusiasts! Clearly it has become more touristy, and certainly has had some good enthusiast events, but maybe its relative inaccessibility makes it hard to attract large numbers of volunteers from the mainland.

John

 

The problem with the Isle of Man is that they do not welcome volunteers on the railways, it has become a part of the local government set up and is very unionised.There have been numerous strikes on the buses on the Island with changes to working practices etc, so sadly the idea of volunteer crews is a non starter. The volunteers who used to work on the railway were cast aside when it was nationalised in 1978 and went onto rebuild the Groudle Glen Railway ( a very fitting tribute to the late and sadly missed Tony Beard). The idea of shift working may be the answer, but it would mean a change in working practices, again there would be issues with the unions and no doubt a pay rise would be expected.

The gentleman refered to by nanstallon was A.M. Sheard he was the last general manager in charge of the railway, he sadly died in 1965, it is common knowledge that he kept the railway running for the last years prior to closure in November 1965 by shifting the profits from the buses ( which were owned by the railway company) to the railway. Sadly after his death W.Lamden was appointed as general manager and it became apparent about the creative accounting that had gone on and sadly that was the end of the original railway. Happily Lord Ailsa took on the railway and re-opened the system in 1967 but the entire system closed again in September 68, and after that it was always a battle to keep the trains running until it was taken over by the Manx government in 1978.

As a matter of personal interest, i remember the railcars in their first year of service -1962 if my memory serves me correctly, i well recall travelling to Peel on them on a wet August afternoon that summer, and since i made several trips to Peel and many on the South Line.

 

The County Donegal railcars are very important to the history of transport in Ireland, they were the last CDR railcars, and were the basis of the 1953 built CIE west clare units. I myself have a close association to the Tralee and Dingle railway, there are plans being mooted for a reopening unfortunately the stock is poor and needs to be replaced.

I personally think that the CDR railcars (nos 19 and 20)would be ideal for use, as then they would be economic and historic. There wouldnt be near as much wear on the units in tralee as the line is flat unlike the grade out of douglas. Obviously some may say that tralee was a basket case, and I agree! now is the time for a shake up, making it an attraction for the first time with a historic feel and proper management!

Darragh

 

i'd recommend visiting Donegal and riding one soon. In fact the County Donegal Railway Restoration Society have membership available on Ebay right now (shameless plug)

 

On a trip organised by the supporters association at the Spring Bank Holiday 1976 after a trip to the MER we went by coach to Port Erin for 2 return trips on the "Steam" railway to Ballasalla which in 1976 was as far as the trains ran.The first trip was in the Donegal Cars which to me was the best bit of the day.They certainly didn't dawdle and I remember the horn continually blowing as we approached each level crossing to alert the crossing keeper. To add to the Irish charm if I recall the chrome seat frames had "GNRI" stamped on them (the Great Northern of Ireland Railway).You had good view of the passing scenery and could see the line ahead. How I envy those who travelled to Killybegs and Ballyshannon in them.
Charles Boylan

 

The railcars are an important part of IMR heritage and, after, all spent only 10 years in Ireland compared with over 50 on the Island. Yes, they still need a lot more money spending on them but I have no doubt that their interrupted restoration will eventually be completed. The T&D received vast amounts of grant aid and when that dried up it went into limbo. I admire the enthusiasm of Darragh and his group but feel that they would be better concentrating on restoring their current stock rather than keep trying to 'go shopping' on the Isle of Man. As it happens the items they would like probably need more spending on them than the existing stock at Blennerville. Ray.

 

I completely agree its just we are thinking outside the box! i accept they have been on the isle of man for a lot longer than Ireland, but you really should take into account that there was very few enthhsuiasts active in Ireland at that time, and i think we owe it to the IOMR who saved them. I have heard that they may wear more due to the incline out of douglas?

They were the last railcars dellivered to the CDR, and were the basis of 1953 the west clare walker units, of which two bodies survive. But i do completely accept what you say about them being very important to the isle of man.

As the spanish stock is in very poor nick having been left to rot for 20 years in the salt air by previous management (who hadnt a clue how to run a railway!) Apparently Irish rail offered help with maintenance etc. and were refused! Explains the mess the country is in! I think Bord na Mona underframes or the west clare saloon sections mentioned above could be used instead. While funding accrues for new builds. ten the spanish stock could be grounded as a ticket office or some kind of visitor centre.

Ideally we ought to start from scratch, possible T&D replicas are on the cards, which could be funded over a period. So I dont think go shopping is appropriate! there is plenty of stock on the Isle of man that could be of use though such as the pairs with uncertain futures. Im not here to pluck stock from the island, As I say im just thinking outside the box!