6201, her new lease of life.

Back at you buddy and all the others that keep chiiping in. It takes two or more for a debate so if you are so keen to see an end of it pipe down?

 

So, returning to the topic; as of today the Justgiving website says "£1,750 raised of £40,000 target by 55 supporters". So crowdfunding hasn't got very far, as we expected. It would seem high time for those in charge to declare what they intend to do next.

 

There's one way that that money would almost certainly be raised very quickly - yes, we know that the 6201 Constitution says that she must remain in LMS maroon as 6201, but times change and one must evolve or die. So, amend the Constitution by means of a proper membership ballot, then invite donations on the promise of turning her out in BR green for a period of time

 

Maths not your strong point, Martin?

Tom

 

That rather feels like 'we are only interested in BR liveried steam locos and won't support anything else' - the majority of the history of the steam locomotive, certainly in this country, occurred before 1st January 1948..............

Steven

 

I must admit that I admire them for keeping 6201 in LMS Crimson Lake it is a magnificent livery that unfortunately seems to be rarely applied. The ELR crab is in a different league in Crimson Lake!

 

You know, I've occasionally voiced the opinion on here criticising owners who have painted their loco in a non-authentic livery, to be told that 'It's the owner's right to paint it whatever way he wants.'

I wonder what happened to that theory in relation to the 6201 group?

 

But sometimes you have to offer the market what it wants, not what you want.

 

I would though question the market, Spamcan. I'm not trying to insult here but realise it might be taken that way, but the demand for BR livery comes from the train spotters of the 1960s trying to relive their youth. But we of that generation are a dying breed; there is a new generation - hopefully - coming along to replace us, and they have no memory of BR steam, and no loyalty to BR. And if you are going to raise money, that's where you need to look.

I've no problem with an owner painting his loco in BR livery, but the David Wilcox and his followers' requirement that everything should be in BR colours is out of date. Some variety is needed, and if an owner wisher to use pre-nationalisation, or pre-Grouping, colours, the sort of flack to which this group has been subjected is not called for.

There might be other areas where criticism is justified, I don't know as I don't belong to the group, but, as I was told so many times, the livery is 'only a coat of paint'.

 

Any stick will do to beat a dog.

 

Just another appeal for everything to be in BR livery???

Sometimes we in the real world do not have a choice, 7029 and 5043 for instance cannot legitimately be in anything but BR livery and fortunately the subtle differences to GWR livery are probably unknown to most of the BR livery fanatics. The problem is that the cost of doing a proper paint job to turn 6201 out in BR livery (in the main for the benefit of photographers, rather than passengers) and in due course to then do a proper paint job to return it to LMS red livery are unlikely to be met by the sort of donations which would be forthcoming from any appeal, let alone raising the money necessary to carry out whatever repairs are required. Frankly such suggestions are rooted in Cloud Cuckoo land.

I, like many others, was born in the BR era, I can remember engines with cycling lions on the tender, and I can remember the amazement when 6245 appeared on the Caledonian in LMS red. I can also remember that it was a time when just about everything was filthy and shabby, and that clean engines with discernable liveies became the exception rather than the rule. To me it is a constant sadness that the rule of "paint everything in BR black" seems to mirror the march of fanatical dictat in current politics. I think that I am right in saying that on the main line there are no engines running on the main line in LMS or SR livery and only one in GWR livery. To me this fervour for the glorification of BR livery, seems somewhat misjudged, given the organisation's distinct lack of proper care for its steam assets in later years together with its efforts see everything consigned to scrapyards with indecent haste, and its widespread attempts to frustrate the efforts of early preservationists. Remember too that BR placed a stipulation on the few contracts to purchase engines which were issued in the 60's that BR insignia must not be applied to them. Why on Earth would any right thinking individual want to celebrate such an organisation if an option for applying the livery of the company which built the engine exists? That is exactly what drove those who raised the money to preserve 6201 to require it to be painted it in LMS red livery. As many of the contributors to the original purchase are sadly no longer with us, what right do current non contributors have to go against the original contributor's wishes for the loco? I can only apologise for bringing financial reality and moral obligation into this debate.

Regards
Bob

 

Well, Duchess of Hamilton was repainted in green livery and then back to maroon at the ELR. All paid for by donations, mostly from photographers.

 

I'd be astounded if you could do two professional quality repaints in a loco plus make a substantial contribution to overhaul funds from donations from a small group of photographers.

Tom

 

Tom, I was referring to the paint jobs, only.

 

Not likely to offer much help to 6201’s current plight then, I presume.

 

Let's start by saying I have no views on Lizzie's paint job one way or t'other.

I can readily agree with the sentiments of much of Bob's post [#414], but the notion that there should be no connection with the loco's BR career on the grounds of short-lived modernising dictats of BR during steam ban years can only be regarded as a personal viewpoint and I can respect it as such. It hardly negates the entire period of this, or any other pre-1948 built loco's BR history. To advance it as a hard reason for not putting the loco into BR livery? Decidedly uncertain grounds indeed.

Bottom line, the departed don't have much clout in law, so it's a decision for no-one but the current owners, pure and simple.

 

I don't see why you need to apologies for bringing some reality into this but I think the suggestion is that a promise to return it to BR livery for a time may motivate some more people to make donations and I think that could be right. Times do change, I can remember the situation in the 60s when we all wanted to forget the then current state on the National network which was systematically being run down so we ended up with Clun Castle in incorrect pre 1934 GW livery and Bahamas in red to try and reproduce as near as possible what we saw as better times. I am a member of the Bahamas Loco Society and there was never a livery debate, we all assumed it would be LMS red. The other argument is that BR livery fits the stock being hauled but this will lose value as sets of Mk3 coaches become more common. Personally I have no preference as long as the chosen livery is correct for a period in the loco's history.