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Crowdfunding appeal for 6201

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sidmouth, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    You are right, in fact IIRC there were some pictures posted or linked in one of the earlier 6201 threads a few years ago.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6845902195
     
  2. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    In all the charters I have attended the repaints were funded by the charter participants. A new livery can attract new interest and new money. You would be surprised at the dedication of charter participants, every year the Scottish Bash on the WH line was a sell out, that's up to 200 people paying £250 each plus the cost of getting there and accommodation. On several GC freight charters we have been asked to pay extra into the wagon restoration fund which is why you now see some smartly turned out box vans there, not a priority for the railway to fund
     
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  3. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Depends how deep,your pocket is and what facilities you have, Carnforth, Ian Riley and Mr Hosking can all overhaul their engines in house and the latter individual seems to have a very deep pocket
     
  4. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Read Bob's post again: they were advised, by professional railwaymen, that operating the loco wasn't feasible. I'd say that was a problem in itself, and those founding members had the courage to ignore that advice.

    As for repainting for photo charters, were a photographic group to approach the SMF, for instance, with such a proposal, I'm quite confident of what the answer would be.
     
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  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Stubborn commitment is a good trait provided one is equally and determindley so towards rational change.
     
  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    That is very true and large loco ownership seems to be less in the realms of earning to stand still, in terms of refill the fund in for the next time it needs to be drawn upon, and more about having huge reserves which need to be offset in a financially efficient manner. Its always been said that the way to yield a small fortune from a loco is to start with a large one.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    On that we can agree.
     
  8. forty

    forty Member

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    Thats fair enough to me as at least. That loco has for prolonged periods of time appeared in BR lined black, LMS black & have I read is to reappear in LMS maroon at the completion of the current overhaul?

    So no livery hang up just presenting the loco in its different guises.
     
  9. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    No, only the first hundred Horwich Crabs received LMS red, all others, and all the Stanier versions, were black. The loco will return in black as LMS 13268.
     
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  10. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the tender has already been painted and appeared in the latest UK heritage hub e-mag
     
  11. Smokestack Lightning

    Smokestack Lightning Member

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    I was replying to @forty though, not Bob, although I did refer to the details in Bob's post.

    Dave
     
  12. jonathonag

    jonathonag Active Member

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    By all means nobody is expecting groups to entertain photographers in that matter as if it is legally the right of those holding the camera. However, if it was the difference in such an owning group earning some extra money or not, it doesn't hurt to consider it if somebody comes along with an offer?
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    I happen to agree with your proposition but I think in the case of 6201 and one or two others there is a reticence about the forecast positive outcome translating in to much of a reality or it not being worth the worry. Given the length of service some of the management has given, too, it is only natural that a degree of conservatism and resistance to change creeps in.
    To paraphrase CJ, "I didn't get where I am today by heeding advice".
     
  14. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    It doesn't. But I read @LMS2968 as saying something different, along the lines that for some groups, there are things that are more important than money. In the context of @bob.meanley's posting about the background, I rather admire the consistency - even if I might personally prefer her working in green than dormant in crimson.
     
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  15. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    Yes, but it depends how much. A business plan which demonstrated the promise of a new livery would cover a significant proportion (e.g. 20%) of the current funding shortfall, might be well worth considering. Vague promises of “we’ll promise to pay for both repaints and the resulting publicity might help your general fundraising” would not.
     
  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Given that the future of 6201 is a matter of some conjecture, if there is to be a third party investment, will the livery aspect be a condition of any putative deal? If so, its present location might suggest an unchanged appearance being effectively house colours? Or a text book application of BR Maroon albeit never worn by 46201?
     
  17. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    If it was the society members would have to agree to change their constitution. I have no idea what that process involves but I imagine it would require some kind of debate and a vote. And as others have said maintaining the loco in LMS red was one of the founding principles of the society and should not be dismissed lightly.

    However your question is unanswerable since no-one has said whether a third party offer is on the table. There is a lot of wishful speculation in this thread but no real money.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  18. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    So, for arguments sake, the executive of PELS enter a contract with a third party to regain 6201s certification - who practically would scrutinise that or intervene in any meaningful way?
     
  19. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    The society members. No-one else has any responsibility for the loco.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  20. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Active Member

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    Whilst I have no concrete knowledge, and only those involved with the Society will know, it is probable that the original benefactors did so under a Deed of Gift and that enshrined the livery within the constitution. A Deed of Gift is a serious document and could mean that the descendants if the benefactors have rights to ensure compiance. It's a bit like restrictive covenant on land etc. When you know the intentions of the benefactors then it is hard to over ride them.
     
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