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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    This is where i think you are not understanding my or maybe other people's comments. nowhere has anyone said that younger people cant build an engine, or that younger engineers are not good enough.

    The facts are this. If you breakdown where the money is coming to build most of the new builds (and normal restorations, however some can get decent lottery grants that new builds cant get) then you will see that most of its coming from people who are in their late 60s and older. There are a few younger ones (hey im only 36) but no where near enough to fund the millions needed for a new build that doesnt have any parts to start it off.

    Without a project having money then its getting NOWHERE. It doesnt matter how many engineers you have, you still have to pay for things. Now looking at the forecast of a reduction in the numbers of people interested in funding steam locos to be built how are projects going to be funded going forward? If someone on here can give a sensible answer that is achievable then im pretty sure all loco groups would love to hear from you!!

    That being said, when i recently went to the Llangollen Railway and saw the loco groups at Carrog station barely raising any money from their station fund shops i do wonder why they dont all just clear the area up, convert the coaches into railway coach holidays and £1500 plus a week in the summer holidays and you would raise far more than you currently do for the small prairie and 80072.
     
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  2. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman Member

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    Great advice you two, when this huge crazy thing of weirdness I am stuck in now clears away, I will definitely take it onboard. :)
     
  3. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

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    Or you use the camping coaches to raise funds for the projects. Which may be what you were getting at.
     
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  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    It’s not just railway engineering projects. As regulars here will know, I’m actively involved in my church, and most of our core volunteers are retired in their 60s and 70s.

    Those of us a generation or two younger have minor commitments like jobs and children, which by definition limit the amount of time we can give.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    Not all are express engines.
    http://www.82045.org.uk/
    http://www.catchmewhocan.org.uk
    https://www.g5locomotiveltd.co.uk/
    http://www.762club.com/
    https://www.holdenf5.co.uk/
    https://webblocos.co.uk/
    [shameless plug] All found via the New Builds section of the Websites Database at http://www.heritage-railways.com/linksdb/links.php [/shameless plug] :)
     
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  7. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I think that you are over-simplifying things. The 5532 & 80072 shops have minimal overheads so any sales equate to almost 100% profit. If those carriages were converted into camping coaches the cost to bring them up to a legal standard could be in the 200k region. Could you guarantee enough uptake to cover those costs over a relatively short season? I somehow doubt it. The last thing the LR needs now is another loss-making project (ref: LR Engineering).
    Ray.
     
  8. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    That will be because facebook is full of people who don't know their arse from their elbow, but like other people to think that they do.

    Richard.
     
  9. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Facebook (or anything much else, for that matter) can only reflect a cross-section of wider society.

    For undiluted online "care in the community", see Shpock and Gumtree.
     
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  10. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    There is also a long standing agreement with the owner of the station house that there won't be any camping coaches in the sidings.
    Should ownership change we can then consider this, although it would involve a large financial outlay and would also stop both loco groups from raising funds.

    Bob.
     
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  11. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting food for thought here. I recently saw a group photograph of supporters of one of the new-build steam projects. It was noticeable that all appeared to be gentlemen of pensionable age.

    Heritage railways, along with much else, have been set back by the Covid pandemic and are going to be further set back by the economic downturn that is now affecting the country. That is bound to cause some scaling-back of new build projects. Some will now not get started, an example being the Bluebell’s intended SECR E-class. Among those already underway, some will simply be delayed, but others are likely never to be completed. There is no guarantee that new supporters will emerge to replace those who pass away. Younger enthusiasts may well have different priorities, including heritage diesels.

    On the narrow-gauge lines, some locomotive new-build may have been necessary to provide sufficient motive power to operate services. But on the standard-gauge, we have more than enough preserved engines, although maybe not enough of the smaller types in serviceable condition. Standard-gauge new-build is very much in the WIBN category and will need to take a back-seat to projects that are necessary to keep heritage railways in operation (including infrastructure and carriage repairs).

    A variant on the new-build theme has been provided by the various GW “kit bashing” projects. Among these, 9351 has done good work for the WSR while 2999 Lady of Legend has been completed and well-received by enthusiasts. 6880 Betton Grange appears to be getting close to completion. Assuming that it has been unaffected by the engineering issues at Llangollen, we may hope that within a year or two it will be able to find a home and start useful work on one of the larger heritage railways.

    I am less sure about 1014 County of Glamorgan and 4709. Looking at the controversies associated with these projects, I’m inclined now to see both in the category of “seemed like a good idea at the time”, that time being some years ago when the heritage business outlook was brighter. Having said that, 1014 does seem to be well advanced so may still be likely to complete.

    The 4709 project has stirred a hornets’ nest with its plan to take the boiler from 7027 Thornbury Castle. It will be interesting to see how views settle after people have had more time for reflection. On the basis that “all publicity is good publicity”, they might attract some fresh supporters. On the other hand, some previous supporters will undoubtedly walk away because they cannot agree to the dismantling of Thornbury Castle. This project must be among those at serious risk of failing to complete.

    Finally, it should not be assumed that because a lot of work has been done on a new-build project, it is bound to be completed. In the late 1980s, the Replica Bloomer project was launched with great enthusiasm and much work until it was about 90% complete – which is where it has remained for the last 30 years.
     
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  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    This is stuff we all know though and I’m still the right side of 40, (just!)
    I’m just as happy to chuck a spare few quid each month to say 45596 or 82045, or the 40 preservation society, just as long as it’s spent well, and it’s not peed up the wall.
    If it’s slick, well presented and appeals to me I’ll chuck some cash towards it, It’s how I have to be at work.
    If it’s all a bit half hearted then why bother?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  13. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Great post.

    The Bloomer is indeed a salutary lesson, but in more ways than one: as interesting as it would be as a piece of industrial archeology, it's unlikely to be very much use in preservation - 7ft driving wheels on a 2-2-2 with a tractive effort of less than a 14xx or at best half of a 3MT? If it were a super useful design then it would probably have been finished a decade or more ago.
     
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  14. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    I think you're absolutely right. Whatever we are all about to enter, the other side will be a landscape very different from the here and now.
    As a sport called Shakespeare once put it: "There's a divinity that shapes our ends, rough hew them how we will."
     
  15. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right too. I can't see any more being started tbh, and a few part completed ones in early/middling stages being abandoned.

    Beachy Head and the P2 are certs to finish, and maybe some of the GWR ones using existing parts, and the NER tank, and 82045. After that, not sure
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm adding 2MT 84030 to the "dead certs" ..... just because they're not too hung up on keeping us lot slobbering at updates doesn't change the positives behind this one.

    OK, so it's 2ft gauge, but let's not forget Blodge ought to be giving birth to something big and bendy, sometime in the next few months.
     
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  17. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres

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    Narrow gauge I know, but don't forget the lovely Blyth of the Southwold Railway - all finished and running :) I'm looking forward to the NER G5 being completed.

    Like you, I'm not sure how many new builds will ever turn a wheel; some years ago there was a magazine article that rated how likely new builds were ever to succeed. I think it's now time that was revisited. I'm not even sure that the A1SLT's V3 tank will ever materialise; the V4 maybe. Still think the Doncaster P2 frames should be donated to Simon Martin to turn into a Thompson rebuild ;)

    As for diesels; I have high hopes for both LMS 10000 and D5910, the Baby Deltic :)
     
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  18. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I can already smell the burning torches and hear pitchforks being sharpened...!
     
  19. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    I agree the two diesel ones are likely to be completed, like the GWR ones they are using quite a lot of existing parts, 10000 has a power unit and used a class 58 as a basis for the frames, the Baby Deltic, again has an engine and used the bogies from a class 20 and a class 37 body shell.
     
  20. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Rolls-Royce lost Adrian Lombard in 1967, he was only 52 and his early death created "a vacuum which nobody could fill" (Hooker). This was where the RB211 project really started to get into difficulties.

    The company became insolvent by the January of 1971 and was placed into receivership in the February. The company was nationalised in order that the RB211 engine could be completed.

    Rolls-Royce needed a technical team who could solve the problems remaining on this engine so Hugh Conway (MD of RR Gas Turbines) persuaded Stanley Hooker to come out of retirement. Hooker was born in 1907 and other significant members of the team were also retirees, Arthur Rubbra was born in 1903 and Cyril Lovesey was born in 1899.

    So don't be surprised by the fact that gentlemen of pensionable age can get things done, they have a fine record going back many centuries. It is largely the skills and knowledge that matter with regard to what can be brought to bear on the project in question. The notion that there is a peculiar "expiry date" or "best before date" principle of sorts at play here is rather questionable.
     
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