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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    That's very surprising. There's a good number of primary sources that state they were limited to 60mph due to excess "nosing around".
     
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  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    :)
    No she doesn’t work in an engineering capacity!
    But I think she has a point that at platform level, put something like say 2857, 7325, 7802 and 4930 how many people other than enthusiasts could tell the difference?
    When I say she’s not a ‘normal’ she does know the difference between a Standard 4, (she’s had a footplate ride on that one) Caley 828 (that nice little blue one ;)) and a Western (those nice red engines she used to wave to as a kid)
    I’m semi joking about ‘all Western loco’s look the same’ but put the same set of plates on any of the GW locos I’ve mentioned above would any member of the public be able to tell the difference?
     
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  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Bob, I wasn’t being entirely serious, but in answer to your question I think it would depend on how minor those alterations are, and from what angle would they be viewed from?
    Crew, passenger or lineside veg wise?
     
  4. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    My Mum (God rest her soul) once asked me "Is that Big Jim?" (USA TC 2-8-0) in Haworth Yard, in front of a group of Locomen... We were stood by the MR "Big Goods" 43924.
    I shrunk into my anorak(!) very quickly indeed and started walking away as the laughter began...!

    Richard.
     
  5. Hirn

    Hirn Member

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    I will try and see if I can find more details. What happened was reiterated by somebody with a very good memory, wide contacts and a scrupulous character.
    I don't expect he would have said it were it dubious and I would certainly not discount it as obviously a fisherman's tale.

    My guess is that likely somebody in the train was a reliable timer and that they didn't have speedometers so the drivers would just run fast as it felt - accounts of what happened when the 9Fs were first put on passenger work one summer Saturday. It is just possible that it was a test run to get the speed limit raised, there was an inspector in the cab with the crew.

    Wether from optical alignment, some improvement to the leading truck or just a really good stretch of track the drivers probably found they would go fine faster than 60 mph and worked the speed up gently over time. It was said - and I have seen something to this effect in more than one source - that the Western authorities were scared of them and that they were unreasonably limited. My own speculation is that there really was some trouble and it was cured but the trouble having been hushed up, to lift the speed limit might
    have meant explaining what had gone wrong originally- if was anything like the debacle when the very first example of Collet's Taffy Tanks was first trialled.........
    Also a lot of things that had been strict rules went by the board during and after the last World War.
     
  6. Mrcow

    Mrcow New Member

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    I sympathise with and partially subscribe to the theory that everything should be restored, but there is also still a number of unrestored 8fs lying around and no overall shortage, so the loss of a stripped late Barry leaver with no realistic hope of restoration isn't the worst thing to happen.
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It wouldn't have been so bad if they had at least made good use of it; but they haven't.
     
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  8. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Not in the UK - they have all either been restored or are under active restoration
     
  9. Mrcow

    Mrcow New Member

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    That's semantics, 48773 and 48431 are both out of service pending overhaul, and 45170 is at the start of a very long road. If you really want to spend money restoring an 8F there are better options than 48518 in the UK already, and if ownership floats your boat there are locos abroad that you could pursue. There is also no shortage of them in active service.

    I stand by my comment, it is no great loss. No matter how sad it feels to us the locos's chances of restoration haven't significantly changed, and part of it is getting used for something better than decorating South Wales.

    Whether it is being put to good use or not is in the eye of the bill payer, not the internet. I suppose that brings all of these conversations down to the real crunch (even the Castle that shall not be mentioned). If you have the money, you can do what you want with it. If you don't you have the right to an opinion, and the owner has the right to disagree and completely ignore it.

    Note this against a background of me specialising in buying locomotives that people (especially on the opinion fest that is N.P.) specifically view as pointless restoration candidates with no hope of decent revenue earning careers in the UK. I like to do it, so I do. I've recently bought a spares donor locomotive undergoing componant removal specifically so I could save it from that fate and restore it, although said large lump of junk is outside the scope of this thread.
     
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  10. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Please enlighten us as to which they may be! I'm (and I'm sure others will be) also very interested in the spares donor that you have acquired - please share some info!
     
  11. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Are we getting the County (8f firebox) and 47xxx mixed up? As a mainline loco the strengths of a 47xxx will be mostly adhesion and grunt beyond what you can get from a class 5. Cannot see a speed limit above 60mph being granted.
     
  12. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    With respect, its not semantics. Your point was that there were 8Fs lying around unloved and unrestored and therefore the loss of 8518 was no big deal and that's simply not true. I think there are only 2 8Fs in the UK that are yet to steam, and both are being actively restored. The fact that some have been restored, worked for a period (maybe more than one period) and are now stored is not relevant as we can't have everything running at the same time.
    I wish you good luck with the Luttermoller-glad to see you eventually got that piston out!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
  13. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    The boiler barrel was then sold onto Greg Wilson at the Churnet valley and will steam with his 8f. So it will he used
     
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  14. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    No chance its going to go mainline
     
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  15. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    In which case surely a no 1 boiler would be perfectly acceptable ?
     
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  16. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Which is, of course, what they originally intended fitting along with the salvaged 28xx block and would have been correct for the early prototype.
    Ray.
     
  17. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Not for lots of good reasons. The Std 1 boiler was a temporary measure whilst they were finalising the design of the Std 7, and was only seen with inside steam pipes. Besides it just doesn't look like a 47. Provided that they make a Std 7 sized smokebox all the differences between Std 7 and Std 8 should be hidden under the boiler clothing. Technically the Std 8 is a bearable compromise, PR wise its a damned nightmare and IMHO foolish.
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    If all thats required is a 25mph Lookalike then dummy outside steam pipes are entirely feasible, if it isnt then i agree the 8 is as near as dammit... PR wise think being straight up without all the star nonsense might have been better.
     
  19. Mrcow

    Mrcow New Member

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    91.016, a South African Railways Class 91. There is a pretty up to date list of out of service/unrestored 8fs on Wikipedia.
     
  20. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    It seems that feelings about the Hawksworth county have become stronger. I know some were always dead against using the LNER 8f boiler, but 6 months back it appeared most commenters were broadly supportive. Now comments seem very much against the 'bag of compromises' approach.
    One wonders whether opinions about any and all of the GWS builds are now coloured by the 4709/7027, and the GWS now appear to be happy to plunder any locomotive in order to satisfy the craving of a few well placed members of the society.
    For myself, I've never seen any charm in the Hawksworth county. I suppose it has the distinction of not looking the same as other Swindon 4-6-0s, but to my eye, that was exactly its failing.
     
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