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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Some LNWR types did last a fair time, coal tanks, Cauliflowers, the Super Ds already mentioned and one or two others, in small numbers did last long enough to run for BR.
     
  2. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Freight locos, fair enough but on the passenger side, excluding what only limped on due to WWII, there wasn't an awful lot.

    It's got to be said, in postwar shots - especially colour images - LNWR passenger locos look a lot more dated than, say, the large variety of SR Drummond 4-4-0's. Perhaps it's just a case of greater familiarity with all those LSW antiques! That, plus Urie and Maunsell knocking out locos of surprisingly modern aspect pre-grouping.

    Of course, with the exception of 15&94xx classes (dons tin hat) all those Swindon-built things looked little different across half a century (and ducks!).:D
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    A large number of ROD 2-8-0s and other locos ended up stored on the SECR at the end of the Great War, and some of them were still there as late as 1927 awaiting sale, but I am not sure if any were operated, rather than just moved.

    http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/ROD.html

    Tattenham Corner:
    View attachment 20132

    Tom
     
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  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not quite Swindon 1892 ... but not a million miles away either!

    Thinking about it, many locos sold to the WD then stored after WWI vanished from record during the 20's. Better known NG examples were "Gowrie", ex-NWNG and "Canopus" ex-Pentewen. On the SG, ultimate disposal dates for ex-IWC Nos 1 (the former railmotor loco unit) and 3 (Black, Hawthorne 0-4-2st), both sold to the government (around the end of WWI) are among very many seemingly unrecorded.

    I wonder, other than the Robinson 2-8-0's sold on to LNER & GWR, whether there was some official scrap drive undertaken to 'clear the decks' of surplus - of often obsolete - locos? It would have been one way of getting at least some funds into the treasury's coffers (rather than hemorrhaging it on endless storage costs!) .... immediately ahead of the Wall Street Crash as events transpired.

    Also, after locos supplied to the Met Railway, Southern and MGWR/GSR are totalled, how many (if any) Maunsell 2-6-0 'kits' from the postwar Woolwich Arsenal construction exercise were never sold? If not actual manufactured parts, I wonder how much raw material was left over?
     
  6. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Not really fair. It was the passenger stock which was the main target in the Midland's sights, to replace with their own types, something which did not prove to be realistic, but by then the withdrawals had begun. Goods engines tended to be immune, as even the Midland realised that their 4F wasn't the right type for the real heavy work.

    The LNWR, by the way, wasn't the only casualty; the GSWR and Caley also suffered badly.
     
  7. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    No-ones arguing. There were significant engineering developments behind the cladding as it were, with anything that wasn't satisfactory in service being worked on, but the outward appearance stayed much the same. It is, I think, quite fair to say that Collett was much more concerned with big end bearing life than streamlining, whereas Gresley...
     
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  8. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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  9. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'd hoped I was being reasonably balanced. Apologies if that failed to come across. From what I understand, no G&SWR design could have been classed as 'outstanding'. Along with the Highland, in any case, their loco stud was pretty small. The outlook for any locos suddenly non-standard in a larger company is never going to be great. The Caley 4-6-0's (with the exception of the ex-HR 'Rivers') seem to have been a pretty indifferent bunch too, but the later Dunalastairs fared rather better.

    I'd imagine the grouping era economics and service patterns (thinking 'rationalising turns' here) in the central and west highlands tended to mitigate against services suitable for the smallest locos. Services on lines like the Far North to Thurso/Wick were unlikely to overtax locos (in peacetime at least), so I'd guess there was less of a hurry to equip sheds with Black 5's (traffic requirements aside, if you're building shiney new locos, send 'em to where lots of folks will be impressed before places where there's hardly anyone around to appreciate them), merely leaving older HR classes to soldier on to exhaustion - which many actually seemed to have already reached by grouping, from what I've read. The self contained and remote nature of Lochgorm Works may also have played it's part in the case of ex-Highland locos.
     
  10. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I wasn't actually getting at you, just making a point. The Highland locos were ham during WWI and had to be given some pretty heavy repair work soon after; they actually had a longer life than other absorbed Scottish types. One of the to get Black fives - and in quantity - was Perth, far from the madding crowd!

    No, the rapid withdrawal of LNWR, and L&YR, was political, schemed at Derby.
     
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  11. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Again, with the L & Y, the freight and tank locos massively outlasted the passenger types. The A class were still running in the early 60s, the 2-4-2 tanks lasted long enough in some areas, eg Bury, to be directly replaced by Metro Cammell and Cravens DMUs.

    I think the thing which did for the GSWR locos was the fact that there were a lot of small classes, quite a lot of which were old too.
     
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  12. Black Jim

    Black Jim New Member

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    Have you read a book about the L&Y by ' Rivington' cant remember his name now as i no longer have the book!
     
  13. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    No, but I would find it interesting as I am an L & Y fan
     
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  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    His real name was Eric Mason. There are two books: My Life With Locomotives (Rivington), and The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway. Both highly recommended.
     
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  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The L&Y has one overlooked claim to fame. One of their railmotors (loco/trailer type LMS10617+Trailer29999) was the last example of it's breed in England, surviving until March 1948 .... one month after the last LNER Sentinel Railcar ("Hope") bit the dust on Valentine's Day.

    It was outlived - by a matter of weeks - by one solitary LNWR example (totally enclosed type LMS29988) north of the border on the old Caley branch to Moffatt.

    Until the fire was lit in reconstructed GWR No.93 a few years ago ..... those were the very last of the steam railmotors.
     
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  16. aron33

    aron33 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 10617 ended up on the Horwich branch
     
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  18. Black Jim

    Black Jim New Member

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    I would think you may still get those books online? One thing I remember was him saying after the Midland took over in 1923 was how inferior some of their standards were compared to the L&Y. He was in the drawing office at Horwich.
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    We've driven this 'ere New Builds subject around the block several times now, with some super choices (and one or two others!) suggested already. I don't know about you folks, but it's introduced me to so many classes where I only barely registered their existence.

    One of the factors which has come up time and again is how useful suggested candidates are likely to be to heritage lines. The railcar/railmotor thing has given me pause for thought .....

    There are quite a few times off-peak, where firing up a large mainline loco isn't going to be best economic. Accepting many visitors want to see something from Thomas the Tank Engine, others simply enjoy the views and the smell and sound of steam. The last two are just as present with a railcar/railmotor ... especially those designs with a separate loco portion.

    Would there be much benefit to considering a few of these as candidates? Some, like the first Drummond examples and the GNoSR oddities may have been less than aesthically triumphant, or any good for that matter, but others, providing no unrealistic feats of haulage are expected, could carry numbers which would be wholly uneconomic otherwise.

    I'm not suggesting dozens of the things, but one or two might find gainful employment here and there, serving both an educational function and keeping a line operational (i.e. visible to the wider world) when it otherwise might not be. They'd add something to a few period TV productions and films along the way too.

    And no, I'm not suggesting the IWCR example ..... yet, as I reckon the delightfully eccentric little FYNR Drewry railcar (which looked like some chesterfield sofas arranged across a rail mounted open sided shed on wheels) would serve the IWSR better. That and from all accounts, the railmotor's third class seats were a bit on the 'slippery and uncomfortable' side!

    Just a passing thought. Comments, anyone?

    I like these! But would one be useful anywhere? From the Hawkesworth Collection:
    P1070238blog.jpg.cf.jpg
    Whilst this is more sort of ..... "interesting"! From readtiger.com
    Taff_Vale_railmotor_(Rankin_Kennedy.jpg And would one of these make it up to East Grinstead, or just be able to do the honours on the Ardingly spur? From rmweb.co.uk:
    post-6750-0-96349700-1301483412.jpg.cf-1.jpg
     
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  20. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Could be a popular "tea-cup express" for ladies à la Hyacinth Bucket :D (sorry for joking)

    Knut:)
     

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