D of C 4489 now in the Angus Pavilion

On Saturday (21st June) 4489 entered the, year round climate controlled, Angus Pavilion at Exporail and took up her position beside the Royal Hudson. It involved two days of track laying and adjusting in the yard behind the building to gain access to the correct rear door, including laying a Shoo Fly across the streetcar track. Then two locos and two yard crews carried out some complex switching maneuvers until in the early afternoon 4489 was carefully propelled (with the buffer car) into the building to a round of applause. She can be viewed from a balcony above and a well lit, full height, observation pit below. Visitors will also be able to walk through the corridor tender and out of the cab. There will be lighting under the tender to show off the water scoop gear and in the foyer an extensive audio visual display on D of C, her design, working history and preservation, with a special feature of her Mallard 75 experience.
Cheers
Owd Sweedy


Shoo Fly crossing over streetcar track.


4489 enters the Angus Pavilion through the rear roll up doors


Inside the Angus Pavilion, Hudson to the left, the pit in the foreground.


The orange mesh is temporary until the guard rails around the pit are reinstated.

 

Very nice.

Looks to be in a good display and a great end to a 2 year story.
It might not be a teak, but that coach behind seems suitably livered

fyi, this picture seems to be doing the rounds…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3705/10186398265_e7c309bd58_z.jpg

 

Great stuff, Sweedy. Hopefully, this will finally silence all those who claim that the Canadians don't care about their A4!

 

theirs some rust on the buffers now, the candians dont wont to take car of there a4, send it back to uk and restore to mane line standrd

Seriously though, she must now be the best presented item in Exporail. I think any future Canadian holiday would necessitate swinging by that way just to have another look at her

 

Well presented and looking good, I just wish it was restored to running condition and could be seen in steam. There's something sad about a motive power unit( steam or IC) sitting dead in a museum. That goes for auto and maritime exhibits too, though at least automobile exhibits can be restored and left ready to go, unlike steam with boiler certs and so forth which run out whether it's used or not.

 

You know it would create quite a buzz if someone in Canada had an interest for operation. Consider having her go west to Vancouver every once in awhile. An A4 through the Canadian Rockies that would be really cool if you think about it.

 

I have my scanner & camera ready to go ......and A4 on the climb from Rogers to the Connaught tunnel would be great ... we can but dream ...

 

I must admit, I've had fantasies involving 4489 steaming through the rockies in the past! However, having been trained as a conservationist, I have to let my head rule my heart in such matters. Running a locomotive is inevitably going to accelerate the deterioration of its historic fabric so, however much we might like to steam everything, in practice we ow it to future generations to keep a representative selection of locos in untouched, pre-preservation condition.

We can debate whether 4489 ought to be one of those locos; after all, we still have another A4 that has never steamed in preservation (60008). But unless somebody steps forward and offers to fund her restoration, and can agree terms with Exporail to do so, then such a discussion will remain academic in any case!

 

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Yeah Dwight would be cool too and would have quite a range and not being all that far from Steve Sandberg and Milwaukee Road 261 but even more would probably need to be done. Also recalling that Steve had quite a bit of trouble getting 261 out of the same museum, politically as well. An inside group would need to be formed at the museum in Green Bay and the list would be very long. Leaving Dwight alone probably be best as well because I don't think we want those political issues to happen again. But also a building would need to be constructed and it would also be of great importance to have the levels of the individuals to have a well put together plan such as what the folk for the N&W 611 has.

 

Hi Mike 1522, nice thought, but I'm afraid it would take more than someone with an interest in operation. Remember, Exporail is a museum, not a preserved railway, there is no mandate to put anything back into working order. Putting aside the enormous amont of money it would take to get her back into steam, the simple fact is that CNR and CPR who own all the mainline trackage in Canada, would never allow some privately owned and financed, antique steam kettle, with no steam loco support or infrastructure, and not even fitted with roller bearings, to get anywhere near their right of way for fear of jeopardizing the millions of dollars worth of freight traffic they move every day. As putting her back into steam would mean "compromising her historic fabric" to quote MuzTrem, I think I would be set against it, and as well as having nowhere to go, there is nothing for her to pull.
But hey, we can dream. I dreamt that D of C would be restored and moved into the Angus Pavilion, and that came true!!
Cheers
Owd Sweedy

 

It really was a pipedream wasn't it. I agree with most of what you say. Going to Great Britain and doing a 4464, 60007 or 60009 tour is more practical.

 

Maybe one day someone could convince Mr Hosking to take 4464 on tour over the water. If only!

Chris

 

Well, there was an A3 that went over the Rockies back in the early 70s......but I digress . It's great to see that 4489 is going to be well displayed, including the chance for folk to see underneath her. Good thinking. I wish her and her custodians well. Ditto for 60008, of course

 

Pity they cleaned all the grime and rust off and removed the kylechap then. Considering the amount of work done to the loco during its life, you'd have to go some to make a significant difference to the fabric of that loco. I don't understand why we owe it to future generations to keep a representative selection in untouched represervation condition. As you say you are conservationist, but it seems to me that all this is really for the benefit of future conservationists, not the public in general. I doubt they would care if the boiler had been repaired umpteen times and the frames had been welded up because of cracks. How many people outside the conservation/museum business actually care that Lode Star was rebuilt by Swindon Works and think it must never be touched again?

In fact I was making a more general point about museum exhibits of motive power units in general. I wasn't expecting D of C to be going anywhere ever again.

 

Well, yes, one can make a very valid argument that 60010 should have been left untouched. However, I think one can make an equally valid argument that her BR paint had deteriorated to the point where it didn't reflect how she really appeared as a working engine. If you're trying to educate museum visitors about her role, then arguably her appearance should reflect the fact that she was an express engine and so would (for most of her life) have been well cared for. Having decided to repaint her, you then have the option of returning her to her pre-war condition. Again, there are different arguments to be balanced: do you retain the modifications that tell the story of how she evolved during her working life; or do you return her to her original state to show her designer's original intentions, and educate people more generally about how railways were during the 1930s?

As to the broader question of "who cares?": just imagine, for a moment, if every preserved locomotive was kept running, for ever. Eventually, every component of those engines would wear out and have to be replaced. So then, what remains of the actual fabric of the engines - the genuine steam-age metal, shaped by the hands of craftsmen at the great railway workshops which are now gone forever? Haven't we destroyed what we set out to preserve?

That metal is, in itself, a historical record. Look at the archaeological survey of the original Rocket in the late 1990s. That told us, for example, that the engine had been involved in accidents during its working life - something which no documentary evidence had recorded. Yes, it takes specialists to draw such information out of lumps of metal, but their findings are of interest to the wider public. Furthermore, as technology is always advancing, we never know what future generations might discover that we cannot see today. But if we destroy the historic fabric of our engines now - well, they'll never have the chance will they?

New build steam locomotives can preserve the experience of working steam, but they will never have the history of an engine like Lode Star. An engine with laser-cut frames, cylinders cast from polystyrene patterns and a spray-painted finished is fundamentally not the same as one which was made using traditional materials and methods, however similar they may look. I think most people, at some level, value authenticity. How would you feel if you went to see the Crown Jewels and gazed on St. Edward's crown, and thought, that's touched the head of every British monarch since Charles II...only to be told be the room guide "no, that's actually a replica - the real one fell to pieces because we let thousands of visitors try it on. But hey, it looks the same, so what's the problem?"

Of course, nothing can be preserved for ever. Everything will inevitably change, because everything deteriorates. The job of a curator (which I aspire to be one day) is to manage change. I believe in judging each case on its own merits - and, yes, for many engines restoration to working order is, on balance, justifiable. But for others, it isn't.

 

During their working lives, the paintwork got a lot worse than it had prior to the latest repaint. However the above has no bearing on whether it the loco is returned to steam. It could apply to static or working locos.

Depends what we set out to preserve. You take delight in looking a a piece of metal that, for instance, might have been held by Stephenson, as an item in itself. I take delight in seeing the assembly of bits which go to make up a steam loco actually doing just that.

And not 1 in 1000 or even 1 in 10000 is interested. Maybe even as low as 1 in 100000.

To be honest I wouldn't really worry that much, but since the crown jewels look as good on a display stand as they do on a head that scenario isn'r really relevant.

If you want to show people what a steam loco is, it needs to be in steam and moving. Nothing you show in a museum can give the same impression.

You obviously have differing priorities to me, so we may as well agree to differ, but I bet even you look at a stuffed loco and just for a moment wish it were radiating a bit of heat and wisps of steam were trailing from the drain cocks and injector overflows.

 

Well, if nothing I've said so far has influenced your views then yes, I guess will will have to agree to differ. And yes, of course there is a part of me that would like to see Lode Star, or any other engine you can name, back in steam! But I just believe there are some times in life where we have to let our heads rule our hearts.

 

Speaking personally I think it is nice that not everything is run into the ground now, thereby meaning that future generations have the chance to restore and run them themselves rather than having a collection of old crocks which are simply beyond hope.

 

[QUOTE="Owd Sweedy, post: 882082, member: 14758"

the simple fact is that CNR and CPR who own all the mainline trackage in Canada, would never allow some privately owned and financed, antique steam kettle, with no steam loco support or infrastructure, and not even fitted with roller bearings, to get anywhere near their right of way for fear of jeopardizing the millions of dollars worth of freight traffic they move every day.
But hey, we can dream. I dreamt that D of C would be restored and moved into the Angus Pavilion, and that came true!!
Cheers
Owd Sweedy
Посмотреть вложение 10172 [/QUOTE]
There are other lines in Canada, "short lines" as they call them. I have ridden on one, the Great Western Railway (of Saskatchewan!) which is over 400 miles long. Mind you, it's not everybody's idea of scenic, but hey, what's wrong with dreaming?

Seriously, I am looking forward to my next visit to Exporail; apart from the many other interesting things there, seeing DoC lined up next to the Royal Hudson will make a fascinating comparison. The two locos are almost the same age and both were designed by Englishmen!