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Dalesman and Pendle Dalesman 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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    S6760004.jpeg
    Video still from Helwith Bridge
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Is it and RTT quirk that says part of each leg is operated by LNER, or does that occur on every York to Carlisle trip?
     
  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think its a bug in RTT, seems to suggest this on all these tours.
     
  4. Bodorganboy

    Bodorganboy Member

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    Video of today's Dalesman, 45627 Sierra Leone with 13 on.
     
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  5. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    45627 at Selside Cottages and Stockber .

     
  6. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Part of the furniture

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    Dalesman SL 2b.jpg

    Jubillee class N0. 45627 'Sierra Leone' hauling todays 'Dalesman' through Lunds Paddock with David Blair driving and Rob Russell on the shovel

    Dalesman SL 3b.jpg

    No. 45627 'Sierra Leone' works the return 'Dalesman' through Kirkby Stephen station with Mick Kelly driving and Martyn Soames on the shovel. The Jubilee
    could be heard for quite some time afterwards
     
  7. nige757

    nige757 Well-Known Member

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    45699 Galatea masquerading as 45627 Sierra Leone is seen at Selside Cottages and Stockber.

     
  8. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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  9. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    One I filmed earlier.
     
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  10. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Part of the furniture Friend

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    Last week it seems as though the “big engine” cupboard at 10A was bare as Sierra Leone was rostered first to haul the 13 coach Pendle Dalesman on Tuesday and then the Dalesman on Thursday, also a 13 “coacher”. It is unusual for WCRC to use the same loco only a couple of days apart, reinforcing the view that it was SL or nowt – with perhaps Leander as an option.

    Jubilees were not designed to haul very heavy trains up very steep hills. I imagine it must have been tempting to add a diesel, just to take the strain. Not for any operational reasons but because of the undoubted criticism such a decision would invoke on this forum they chose not to – if you believe that then dream on!! Posts on the thread expressed concerns about water consumption with such a heavy train. In retrospect we now know that everything went to plan and what a treat was provided for all of us watchers (and listeners).

    Providing that a loco’s boiler can provide sufficient steam, the Nominal Tractive Effort (NTE) is a good indication of the maximum pull that a loco might produce. A Jubilee has a nominal NTE of only 26,610 lbs, a Royal Scot 33,150 and Lizzie a whopping 40,300 lbs. It is possible to calculate/estimate the actual pull (corrected for gradient) being exerted by a steam loco. I have done this for some of the climbs and have shown the results expressed as a % of the NTE.

    10 August Pendle Dalesman: Hoghton 59%, Aisgill Viaduct (from @Nige77’s video) 54%, Ramsgreave and Wilpshire 69%. 12 August Dalesman: near Aisgill Summit (from @Black5’s video) 59%.

    For comparison, here are another couple of runs with a more manageable 10 coach train. 20 July, Leander on the outbound Pendle Dalesman at Hoghton 50%. 29 Feb 2020, Alberta on the Cotton Mill Express on the climb to Copy Pit 65/70%.

    On 20th July Leander with 10 coaches headed towards the summit at 36 mph and would have been exerting a pull of around 50% of NTE – she looked and sounded comfortable with her load. I have no information for Jubilees that identifies the cut off needed to produce 50% of NTE. I do have some information for a Black 5; on test at Rugby 39% cut off produced 49% NTE (Black 5) at 37 mph. The speed and % NTE are almost identical to Leander’s run so the cut off may have been very similar. The other runs would have needed longer cut offs, perhaps much longer.

    An express locomotive is designed to be most efficient when operating with cut offs in the range of say 15-25%. At 25% cut off, steam from the boiler is allowed to enter the cylinders for the first 25% of its stroke, as the steam drives the piston forward it expands giving up its energy to propel the train and at the same time losing some of its pressure. Near the end of the piston stroke the exhaust valve opens and the now low pressure steam is exhausted up the chimney with the characteristic chuff-chuff-chuff.

    Somehow Sierra Leone produced around 69% of her NTE – the cut off must have been very long. If we guess 50% (for arguments sake), then steam would be admitted for 50% of the stroke and exert a large force on the piston, sufficient to get the train up the hill. As the piston is already halfway along its stroke, steam expansion is limited and hence the steam retains much of its pressure as the exhaust valve starts to open. The still high-pressure steam exits via the blastpipe, up the chimney and shoots high into the air dragging smoke and cinder along for the ride and making a right royal racket – spectacular, wonderful, we say!

    Running with a long cut off each stroke of the piston takes a large volume of steam, steam that the boiler must provide. Running faster consumes steam at a greater rate. Climbing up through Ramsgreave and Wilpshire at 20 mph must have gobbled up steam at a tremendous rate. It is a judgement call, will the boiler be able to provide sufficient steam to climb the bank at 25 mph, 20 mph, 15 mph, too slow and risk stalling in the damp tunnel. The driver and fireman need to be at the top of their game to keep the steam pressure and water levels up. A smallish loco, a heavy train, a steep hill, a top-notch crew – what is not to like?! Sierra Leone appears to be a strong engine as does Alberta, not sure about Galatea – what has happened to Galatea?
     
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  11. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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    Leander has been over Shap with 12 coaches https://web.archive.org/web/20200126061333if_/http://uksteam.info/tours/t17/t0909c.htm. I was on it, we departed Carnforth 5 early and arrived 5 late.
     
  12. 33056

    33056 New Member

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    46115 on the "Pendle Dalesman" this morning (17/08). Didn't manage to count the coaches.
     
  13. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Lancaster . 47CAE3B7-890F-4726-9DA2-A8EE1FE59E7A.jpeg
     
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  14. Keith Sergeant

    Keith Sergeant Member

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    Passing Brock with flowers on the front and what looked like an observation coach on the rear.

    _DSC7045.jpg
     
  15. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Nominal tractive effort is seldom a limiting factor on what a loco can pull. What could have been a problem would have been adhesion if the rail conditions had been unfavourable on the steepest bits. WCRC seem to have been confident that diesel assistance would not be needed, and they were proved right, but some of us may attribute that to good luck.

    Does anyone have figures for the respective adhesion weights of a Jubilee and a Merchant Navy?
     
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  16. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Correct there is an observation coach on the back, who it's for is anyones guess.
    Wreath for Mike Middleton..
     
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  17. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Think it was twelve.
     
  18. 33056

    33056 New Member

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    Thanks; not easy to keep count whilst standing in the middle of a platform and trying to look out for our allocated coach at the same time.
     
  19. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    God is it 12 months already? I wonder if the car on the rear is related to the wreath on the front?

    Load is 12 inc POB and Obs Car on rear.
     
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  20. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    Which Obs car is it? Haven't seen any photos of it yet
     

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