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Defunct preserved railways

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Robkitchuk, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, this is getting complicated! Mangapps Railway & Museum dosn't have an official Facebook page, never has had! Facebook appears to have created a page for it then merged it with the page for Mangapp Manor, a nearby wedding venue which has no connection with Mangapps Railway. The only thing that this indicates, IMO, is the total unreliability of information gained through Facebook!
     
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  2. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    How do you measure that Tom? I wonder whether in fact one should, in addition to normal accounting, focus on the propensity of the railway's supporters to provide it with donations/free capital, which is effectively the wrap which makes sure that the ends meet. The source and application of funds does this to some extent but not generally in a very informative way, not least because many railways operate through several different bodies which all need to be factored in for the overall picture. Over time, this potential source of cash is likely to have grown, partly due to general prosperity and partly I sense to the aging enthusiast base which has led to an increase in the amount of bequests. While the focus has been on tax efficient vehicles to receive donations etc, railways might also want to give some thought to having some wiggle room so that this cash can be used in the normal operations.
     
  3. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

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    True its not very reliable, but posted just as i thought would interest people. The wikipedia generated page gained 93 likes for the site prior to its merger so for the purpose i used that, but i dont think my method would stand up to scientific scrutiny.
     
  4. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I agree with the first part of this, that a measure of health to be taken into account is the ability to raise money, but not sure about the second part. There is a real danger in using bequests or any other form of fundraising other than tickets and possibly commercial revenue to support the day to day cost of running the railway. Clearly heritage railways are unlikely to be in the position of being able to fund all their capital projects (including loco overhauls particularly from scrap condition) through the ticket revenue, but if significant support is needed from bequests and donations to support the cost of the train service then something has got out of balance somewhere. I think it is pretty much essential to get to a place where the following is funded by revenue....( you might add or subtract from this list)
    1. Coal
    2. Water
    3. All running maintenance between 10yr overhauls
    4. Taxes, insurance etc
    5. The payroll
    6. P/W, S&T and building maintenance
    7. Civil engineering maintenance (fences, culvert clearance etc)

    Appeals should be about....
    1. The balance of 10yr overhauls that the rly cant fund
    2. New vehicles / locomotives / track / infrastructure
    3. Investment in the future (e.g. museum buildings, workshops etc etc)

    A fair measure of sustainability would be to look at the proportion of the first set of costs covered by income excluding bequests, donations and other gifts in kind (though not excluding volunteer hours). I think if the figures were available it might through up some interesting results.
     
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  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think I'd more or less agree with you, although I think 10yrlys can be variables especially depending on owning arrangements. Also perhaps large unforseen disasters such as big landslips etc.
     
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  6. thb17

    thb17 Member

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    The gwili railway moved to a Facebook page with likes quite recently, before it was a proper page and this still exists and is updated and has over 3000 Facebook friends. https://www.facebook.com/gwili.railway?fref=ts https://www.facebook.com/gwili.railway?fref=ts

    Tom
     
  7. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

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    Sorry about that Tom, i just got the numbers from what appeared to be the official page where it exists. I did look at the original page, but could not get a friends figure from it.
     
  8. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Going back to the Avon Valley Railway's quoted visitor numbers: their station café is open 7 days per week pretty much every week of the year, and has regular "pensioner special offers" on weekdays, so I suspect the café is why they have apparently large visitor numbers compared to the size of the railway.
     
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  9. Buckeye

    Buckeye New Member

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    Was that ever intended to be a permanent site?
    I remember being taken there for the first event but I was only knee high to a grasshopper so not really aware of the full ins & outs of it.
     
  10. Corbs

    Corbs Well-Known Member

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    BHR has a facebook page? That's news to me. The official one is the M Shed Museum one
     
  11. Buckeye

    Buckeye New Member

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    Ashchurch - dispersed.

    Ashford Steam Centre

    Ayrshire Rly Soc – Minnivey

    Bradford Transport Museum- dispersed

    Brighton Railway Musuem - dispersed.

    Bulmers Hereford - dispersed.

    Cadeby Light Railway run by the late Rev. Teddy Boston

    Caerphilly- operated by Caerphilly Railway Society

    Delph Railway Museum- dispersed

    Dinting Railway Centre - Moved to KWVR

    ELR @ Helmshore - Moved to Bury

    Fleetwood Railway Museum – dispersed

    Longmoor - dispersed.

    Lytham Motive Power Museum

    Mull and West Highland Railway- which recently closed.

    North Downs Steam Railway

    North Woolwich

    Peak Rail Buxton - Moved to Matlock

    Radstock and the S&D trust

    South Yorkshire Railway Museum- dispersed

    Southall Railway Centre

    Steamport Southport - Moved to Preston Docks

    Steamtown Carnforth

    Swansea Vale Railway

    Swindon Railway Museum - closed / became STEAM

    Tyseley BRM

    Vale of Neath Railway

    Distilling the above list from the thread one has to ask are any of them a great loss to mankind or preservation? By and large the answer is no I feel.

    I am always surprised that in the recessions there have been since preservation started that no lines have gone to the wall for financial reasons. There has been little leadership or regulation of proposed or actual sites by the ARPS/HRS or whatever they call themselves this week. An interesting comment from their new chairman in the latest Heritage Railway magazine states “one particular dislike of mine is why every heritage railway I visit is a scrapyard, with hulks of locomotives and rotting rolling stock and wagons?”

    The same magazine has news of schemes at Snibston closing, Long Marston collapsing and still new schemes like the Aln Valley trying to get going.

    Look at any map and there are umpteen lines/centres near other lines which must dilute the effort & patronage. There is Swindon & Cricklade, Cholsey & Wallingford, Chinnor & PR, Isfield and the EKR all near previously established sites and whose existence and/or startup is questionable to say the least.

    Before anyone accuses me of being a typewriter preservationist I used to be active at the MHR, subject of a few posts on here, and got thoroughly fed up with it and left about 30 years ago and never been back since or involved with any other preservation, and never will be again. Restore your own car and you can do what you want, when you want.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Forgive my ignorance, but I don't really see the point of your post?
     
  13. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit harsh to single out these railways - if many visitors go to them and enjoy their experience then who are we to argue? As I've said before on this forum it is not necessary to be a big outfit for visitors to go and have a good time, they may have less appeal for enthusiasts but for example Chinnor do very popular cream teas and there will be many visitors who enjoy a quieter trip than a standing room only 6 carriage Mk1 set hauled by a tender loco - sometimes small is beautifull as far as railways are concerned!

    Regards

    Matt
     
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  14. sleepermonster

    sleepermonster Member

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    One you have missed is the "other Rother valley" which tried to set up at Westhorpe Colliery near Killamarsh. Unfortunately they only began after the colliery track was removed - I had a hand in part of that - but they did succeed in laying 60ft of track and bringing a diesel shunter to the site, which has since been flattened and built on.

    Tim
     
  15. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Snibston is closing as the owner (council) wants to sell for building land, and this also applies to Long Marston but the land owner will develop it them selves. So this has nothing to do with a failed scheme.

    What previous scheme is the Swindon & Cricklade near, as the only one nearby is Swindon which is a museum, and the G&WR which was started at about the same time. Isfield railway was started as a play toy for the then owner until his main business went bust, so this wasn't started by a preservation group.
     
  16. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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  17. AndyHB

    AndyHB New Member

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    That was transferred to Barry Island (the Barry Island/Vale of Glamorgan Railway) when Cardiff Docks were 'renovated' to provide up-market housing and a few visitor attractions. In 2008, the VoGR was asked to leave the line in Barry Island and it was handed over to Cambrian (John Buxton). Some of the VoGR stock was dispersed, some went to the Bridgend Valleys Railway (aka Garw Valley Railway) north of Bridgend. The VoGR finally 'died' (I had to do the deed) in 2011. On a brighter note, we are currently building a platform alongside the loco shed in Pontycymmer on what we hope will soon become the 'running' Garw Valley Railway.

    www.garwvalleyrailway.co.uk

    I'll be going up there tomorrow and take a more up to date photo.
     

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  18. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    No-one needs HRA permission to start a new scheme or run any railway, so I don't see how they could possibly regulate them.
     
  19. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

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    They just moved to Dunaskin
     
  20. louis.pole

    louis.pole New Member

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    I can suggest one or two that, in any sane world, should be added to the list.
     

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