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Dinting Railway Centre

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by neildimmer, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. tilling

    tilling New Member

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    Keith,
    It is me and about 10 others. We love the place and are crazy enough to take it on. Email me for next meet details. Dintingrailwaytrust@hotmail.co.uk
     
  2. trevh

    trevh New Member

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    some great pictures there.

    the problem is not so much how much the land will be sold for but how much it will cost to reinstate the buildings. It will be guided at a low price for good reason. Not are there only very expensive costs in bringing the building back up to standard but the costs just to insure the site will be expensive enough even if waiting to raise funds. It would have to be insured for public liability and having had experience of getting this myself in the past for former public land - it doesnt come cheap. its a great idea in priniciple but needs to be fully costed about professionally before wasting funds. best of luck
     
  3. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    I am an ex Dinting and current working member of the BLS at Ingrow on the KWVR.

    Running to Woodhead was looked at in the early 1980's, but there wasn't any money and neither BR or Derbyshire Council were really interested. Some problems were the fact the railway went nowhere and could only be accessed via the BR network from the Dinting site also a flood prevention scheme which would (now does) block the trackbed at Crowden. The situation with the site owner was deteriorating rapidly, and several sites were looked at. Ingrow was chosen and the rest is history.

    We now have a very capable new chairman as from this years AGM.

    Re the comment we concentrate on restoring OTHER locomotives, we did some work for the KWVR on the Taff Vale tank a few years back to bring in some much needed funds.
    In the time since we moved to Ingrow, a superb museum has been put together which is well worth a visit, not to mention a very well equipped workshop.
    Our 50 ton steam crane is maintained in a fully working condition, 1704 Nunlow has been restored back to working order and is used several times a year when required (next out the October steam gala), and the very extensive restoration of the National Trust owned 1054 Coal Tank continues, in fact the boiler is very nearly finished and the new cylinder block is due back shortly. 45596 remains on display for now, at Oxenhope. All this work is carried out by an extremely dedicated unpaid workforce, there are only about a dozen or so working members who give up varying amounts of their spare time around other commitments to keep the BLS alive. All told the man hours spent amount to the equivalent of having something like 1.2 full time employees, so I don't think we are doing too badly. Also none of us are getting any younger!

    I wish this fledgling project well, I notice the conditions of sale of the site will be available 7 days before the sale, these will make interesting reading as I suspect there will be some nasty surprises lurking in them somewhere.
     
  4. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Are there any plans to restore the crane tank "Southwick" at all? I remember it being in steam at Dinting in the 1970s, and always had a fascination for it...

    Richard.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    I understand that whilst a new chairman was elected to stand in at a later date, that the owd codger who has hung on for over two decades already, still wouldn't let go when push came to shove. There may be a king in waiting but he ain't on the throne yet.

    As for the number of volunteers - yep - that's about right - but - how many did BLS have when it was closer to its Stockport home? and how many have they lost over the years. What that small number have achieved is superb, but that having been said - there is not a lot of reserves to be shown from being at Ingrow this last twenty years, and that is what is needed as seed corn for the future. Let's be honest - there's only around one quarter of the money in hand that would be needed to return 45596 to the rails, and with three other jubilees around grant aid won't fall from the sky.

    As someone who stumped round Edgeley in 1966-8, helped clear vegetation at the outset so that 5596 could come to Dinting from Bury in November 68, and then helped with the creation and operation of the one time museum there, I will never understand how a Stockport based society eventually ended up over the Pennines - not that there is anything wrong with the KWVR - but time and fuel costs take their toll, and that toll is becoming ever more apparent. It may be that in time to come the BLS may fold into the Worth Valley - with the current restricted revenue stream that is highly likely.

    There will be a mountain for a new chairman to climb - I wish him luck - and I hope he is more pro-active to events than the last one, which is why my membership lapsed twenty eight years ago.
     
  6. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    Southwick is now owned by one of our working members, as is the case with so many restoration projects work is progressing as and when the owners time permits.
     
  7. noelist

    noelist Member

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    any news about the bid?, I'm sure there are at least a few here who would like to see you succeed, there has been a video posted on you tube a couple of hours ago showing the state of the site on the 16th of September:-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqxg13YKsWA

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  8. tilling

    tilling New Member

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    Hi noelist!
    The conditions of sale did indeed contain a few surprises. The buyer will have to pay 25% of any increase in value of the site if disposed of within the next 25 years, and also a further 25% of the notional increase in future value brought about by any granting of planning permission!!! I am no legal eagle but that is what it says. We will be at the auction but our business plan has been thrown into disarray by the possibility of having to fork out a further substantial sum before a sleeper is laid in anger.
    DT.
     
  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    ah but a railway centre could in theory leave contaminated ground which should devalue the site
     
  10. noelist

    noelist Member

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    Hi Tilling, Hmm, these conditions could be off putting for other interested parties, depending on their intentions, one person met on site expressed concern about a public footpath running through the site, their idea was that the engine shed would make a nice house.
    I'm not up on legal issues but a site will have a designated use, which may need to be changed, ie, "change of use", also I wonder if making the site a heritage museum, therefore a registered charity, will affect these conditions.
    as I understand, the previous owner was a rail enthusiast, could the conditions be related to the fact that the value of the site is because of its registered use, and therefore that the seller realises that should the site receive designation of use changed to something more valuable, ie, housing, he/she seeks to also profit from that increase.
    However, I have no knowledge of these matters but wonder why the seller did not seek planning permission before offering it for sale?, thereby increasing the value.
    also, I wonder if it is being sold as derelict land, that being the reason for the reasonable expected price.
    one last question lingers in my mind, what is the legality of putting conditions on a sale, Oh, and are they to do with local planning authority.
    what about creating a trust?

    excuse me if none of this is relevant, I'd just like to see you and your team succeed.

    I wish you good luck, please keep us informed.

    EDIT- good point Sidmouth, in fact ,as it was a railway site it could mean that it will need decontaminating before being used for anything else, this was the case for the Fina site on Preston docks, this could be off putting for many interested parties, maybe some knowledgable person can confirm or deny this applies to this site.
     
  11. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    well if all is sucessfull i wouldnt mind coming down with my chain saw and giving you a hand.
     
  12. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    Mr Warburton Snr, who bought the land originally for the Bahamas Loco Society, was a solicitor, as is (I think) his son, who is the person selling the land tomorrow.

    I think they will have pretty much exhausted every possible avenue of enquiry relating to getting planning permission for the land etc, which is why it is up for auction without any.

    I would think it would not be too much of a problem to re-open the land for some sort of recreational use, e.g. a museum?
     
  13. Guest

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    The land is not green belt but is zoned "countryside" which means there is a presumption against development. The site is shown as "outside the built up area" on the Local Plan

    I can find no evidence of listed building, or contaminated land status, but the physical state of the buildings that do remain is parlous. There is considerable uncleared dereliction around the site and how there have been no injury claims is unbelievable. There appear to be no public footpaths around the site. The amount of silver birch that has grown in twenty years is unbelievable. The Warburtons and Bryants between them should hang their respective heads in shame.

    If my face to face advice had been taken by Bryant in 1982 this situation would probably never have arisen - and a fat lot of good it has done to the Warburtons since, as the site has lain derelict for twenty years due to the building industry not taking flyers on land that is largely ash tip from Gorton tank - if not worse.

    The best use of the site now is rebuilding of the shed and former platform buildings as private dwellings - anything else is pipe dreaming.

    As for the 25% 25 year clawback - I would have expected no less. It will need a good surveyor to argue a profit out of that level of dereliction, as the compliance, reclamation and decontamination costs will make a big hole in any upside take out that the Warburtons would be looking for - if it was really there don't you think they would have done something instead of preside over collapse and decay for two decades?
     
  14. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    The land sold this afternoon for £150,000.

    Derbyshire council had apparently sent a letter to the solicitors about what they would consider letting the land be used for.

    I was hoping it would get no interest and Mr Warburton would have to continue sitting on the piles of rubble.
     
  15. tilling

    tilling New Member

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    Yes, I know.
    The Dinting Railway Trust went armed with a £100,000 war chest, which seemed sensible with a £25000 reserve. I was bidding on behalf of the Trust. Someone threatened to blow my brains out if I did not stop bidding, so I did...... at £149000. We all feel somewhat deflated to say the least. Perhaps the indian gentleman that bought it may turn out to be a steam enthusiast, but I doubt it somehow. Sorry chaps, we did our best.
    DT.
     
  16. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    Sorry to hear that, I was wondering if it was the trust who he was up against, but I got the impression he would have kept going and going.
    Do you know who he is and what he is intending to do with the site? Maybe all is not lost and he might negotiate a lease?
     
  17. Guest

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    It will be interesting to see what happens now - perhaps if the Trust had jumped the bid to £150k you might have put him out - but the phasing of the bidding put him in at that figure and you out. The clawback had certainly worried the couple in front of me, who were not properly informed as to how to deal with that calculation

    That having been said - the site would never again have obtained main line access, so you may have had a lucky escape
     
  18. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    I don't think NEVER is the right word , but given the amount Network Rail would want and all the obstacles they would throw up against doing it, more like highly unlikely.
     
  19. raucousbower

    raucousbower New Member

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    If the Trust are looking for a former museum, with much work needed, next to a railway, then how about the old Midland(?) goods shed in Halifax? Formerley housing the Museum of the Working Horse, which upped sticks in 1991 and not to be confused with the adjacent Great Northern shed, which the Eureka Children's Museum use, the Midland shed is in a sorry state. The reception staff at Eureka said today they were trying to sell it - although the Courier reports it as belonging to Calderdale Council. That said, it occupies a good sized site site with a history of museum status and adjacent to the Caldervale line. Potential anyone?
     
  20. LMSStanier

    LMSStanier New Member

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    The "warchest" was a good idea, and thanks to those that were bidding for Dinting. A great effort but sad that it failed. I did try to drum up support on YouTube with my video "Farewell to Dinting" but didn't know about the bid by enthusiasts until after I had posted it. I'm sure, that if the bidders had gone with the bidding and exceeded the warchest, the excess could have been met by other supporters and/or groups willing to help.

    Perhaps the new owner would be willing to sell for the right price? Or perhaps he may want to get rid of the engine shed and is willing to sell it? Is anyone brave enough to ask him? Is it not worth a shot if he's aware of how many people are interested?

    As for main line access, I'm sure that obstacle could be overcome, though from accounts it wouldn't be easy.
     

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