Electrification of the Settle and Carlisle

A pointless argument ......

 

Photography comes before electrification, an odd perspective.

 

I am going to stick my views straight on the OHL mast. A working railway on the National Network has to pay its way. The best way it can do this is to maximise its traffic potential. Stock usage by a franchise holder is key to controlling costs. One way this can be achieved is to combine services to provide a viable service. For example Windemere - Manchester Airport. Infilling electrification schemes in the Manchester - Leeds - Liverpool area are proposed to achieve that. As more and more infilling is achieved diesel services may become financially marginal. As a diversionary route the S&C requires diesel hauling of electric services. It is in the passengers interest to minimise delays during engineering work. Electrification would allow diverted trains to sweep up the S&C without the delays of a loco change.

For the S&C to survive going forward being part of the electrified railway will promote and continue its existence. That surely is the principal aim of the Friend of the S&C. The S&C is a working railway not a photters playground.

 

Totally agree, what a ridiculous notion to stand in the way of updating a transport system to ensure its survival just because one prefers the way it looks.

 

Not bad for a line that was almost closed 30 odd years ago until a certain MP campaigned & saved it.
How times change!

 

I will - I'll be writing to NR to say I fully support this

Seriously - when the S&C was saved 30-odd years ago, was it so it could continue to be an important part of a national railway network - or was it so it could become a 73 mile long playground for photographers? Because if it was the latter, I'd suggest you also campaign for reinstatement of manual signalboxes, semaphore signals and jointed bullhead track, as well as getting rid of Mark II carriages on steam charters, all of which scream "modern" in photos. And then watch the whole thing collapse into an unfundable mess within 12 months.

It's a part of the modern railway network, not a heritage line. If it doesn't pay its way, it will close - simple as that. If OHL is a way by which its financial future is assured, I'm all for it.

Tom

 

Its not going to have signal boxes and semaphores in a few years anyway.. so that 1950's feel is going to get washed away soon.
Will be the end of the water crane at Appleby / Hellifield as well if electrified.

I never quite understood why electrification stopped at Skipton and didn't continue to Carnforth.. it would have plugged a considerable electrification gap between the ECML and WCML and saved need of DMUs on the Helifield route

 

I have to say that my flabber is quite gasted at the attitude of the OP. As others have already said, it's part of the network, and has to pay its way. In any case, operation 'under the wires' isn't an issue these days. What will cause problems is if the speed limits along the line are increased, coupled with more traffic & thus fewer paths, as has happened elsewhere.

For what it's worth, and bearing in mind that I'm both a steam fan and a lover of all things Midland & the S&C in particular, I've always thought that if our 'leaders' were really serious about modernising our railways, & long haul freight in particular, then instead of HS2, the GC should have been rebuilt to Sheffield, ditto Woodhead, which would then give access to Lancashire. North from Sheffield, rebuild/upgrade one route to Leeds, then do the same to the S&C & GSWR to Glasgow, giving access to the Central Belt. Single/interlaced lines through the tunnels with good pathing would keep costs down too.

It would also reduce disruption to existing routes to a minimum.

Heresy? I actually suspect that those who toiled to build the S&C and the GC would actually approve of 'their' route being upgraded to reflect modern requirements. After all, I'm damn sure that they didn't intend their labours not to be used to best advantage in the future.

 

Maybe it's time for enthusiasts to look at taking all that MR period architecture off the S&C and to rebuilding the Grassington branch as a premier preserved railway... similar landscape, nice long line..

 

... which was the original aim of the Yorkshire Dales Railway (now "Embsay & Bolton Abbey Steam Railway") which is continuing to investigate operating on NR track between Embsay and Skipton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embsay_and_Bolton_Abbey_Steam_Railway#Connection_to_Skipton_station

Interesting claim here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Dales_Railway) that Grassington was built as a through station, despite being the branch's terminus. I did see an original map of a proposed extension from Grassington into Wensleydale, requiring some serious gradients and a long tunnel. The map for the proposal also showed Electrical Supply Stations along the route - was it really going to be an electrified railway??

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassington_&_Threshfield_railway_station#mediaviewer/File:Ydrmt33.jpg

someone had built a house on it long before it ever closed however.

Who knows, the GCR was known from going from London to Sheffield via nowhere, and Sheffield to Manchester the hard way, perhaps if they have persisted they would have gone from Sheffield to Newcastle via this way as it's a combination of hard and via nowhere ??

 

I'm sure the occupier of that house wouldn't mind the occasional steam train running through their hallway.

The newer housing estate behind that house might be a bit trickier to get round though.

 

And all the vapour trails from the planes flying overhead stopping the 50's 60's look to the photos as well, as pointed out by somebody who takes photos on photo charters.

 

Electrification....bring it on! It will secure the future of the line which was so vigorously fought for 30 years ago.
As others have said, the line is not a photters playground, it is a working railway and deserves upgrading.

Electrification came to Grayrigg and Shap, but that hasn't stopped the hoards of camera wielding gricers from
descending on Scout Green whenever a steam special appears has it?

 

I am not sure what the new method of OHLE installation is, but I trust it is not similar to the Tyne & Wear Metro system which does not permit steam operation under its wires.
Perhaps the original concept of electrified main lines, diesel secondary and steam branch lines, as, I understand, originally proposed by a certain Dr B, is getting closer to reality.
Newcastle to Carlisle will not be far behind going under the wires, what about the Cumbrian Coast line?

 

They are probably referring to the Paisley Canal branch, which is restricted to EMUs when the wires are energised - minimising clearances significantly reduced the cost of bridge/platform alterations. As an important freight route this would be of no relevance to the S&C, if anything electrification would be used as an opportunity to increase clearances.

Personally I would welcome electrification of the S&C but I can't see it happening for a very long time, if ever.

Chris

 

Given the large investment that the freight TOCs have made in modern diesels and the somewhat limited passenger traffic - as compared to WCML and ECML - I wonder where the economic case is coming from to justify electrification.

 

i fully support any rail investment that a case can be made for, what silly cranks some of those Lensmen must be!