End of the Line

Hello,
A bit controversial :
Do heritage carriages and wagons fit into the ever increasing 'bums on seats' or Commercial attitude of the UKs heritage Railways?

I get the feeling that GMs and CMEs would be happier to see them gone.....'Linear Scrapyard' mentality.
A nice safe sterile journey form A to B ....after all Joe Public sees everything 'A Steam Train'....and they make up a large percentage of bums on seats.........???!

Nick

 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Whilst I may have been a little harsh on some of the wagons on the GWSR, that's only because a) they're in a real state so are unlikekly ever to be got to when there are other wagons to restore b) they're privately owned so are unlikely to be gotten to before the railway's own and c) most of them are largely uninteresting, apart from that US one which I upset a few people about by saying I didn't think it was worth restoring on the GWSR.

Heritage carriages definitely have a place, enthusiasts definitely prefer them. There's also the point that there aren't endless sterile MK 1s! What % of the SVR's busy timetable is done with MK 1 rakes? The non MK 1 rakes are turned out better on the SVR at any rate, having experienced their maroon rake just today - it was grotty!

Someone mentioned that there are barely any open wagons restored. Well I saw 4 GW grey open wagons at Bewdley today, all of them not looking too bad, yes a little faded, but if they looked shiny new they'd look odd anyway.

 

Most certainly controversial.......

As far as wagons are concerned, everybody loves to see a demo freight, never mind the photo charters run with them........lines wouldn't run charters (and I include coaches in that) if they didn't generate money....... and just how many lines use the wagons as mobile storage space?.....

As for carriages......... they are what give lines like the Bluebell & SVR their USP...... and I for one am looking forward to the two Bulleid coaches running on the MHR!

So, yes they both have their place!

 

The use of the expression "linear scrapyard" attracted my attention! What the said scrapyard contains is less significant than the fact that it remains a scrapyard, decades after supposed "rescue" of the contents. One place is dismantling wooden wagonry, disposing of rotten woodwork (about 100%) and stowing the metalwork away neatly until the woodwork can be re-built. Thus the place is neatened up and the first stage of the restoration has actually happened.

Now there is a limit to the amount of money and effort which is likely to be devoted to wagon restoration. Apart from revenue from charters there is no direct income from this work although the sight of recreated goods trains may increase the general attractiveness of the line to the visitor. (Apart from the removal of eyesores that is.)

Passenger stock will always get priority on a tourist line simply because it earns money directly.

P.H.

 

Paul is correct that with the right skills and mind set wooden framed can be a relatively easy job, the main consideration is the condition of the remaining steel work. Replacing leaf springs can be quite expensive, especially the drawbar ones!

We currently have four wooden framed wagons completely dismantled ( all opens by the way) The steel work for the first one is ready for the new Oak which has already been cut ready for reassembly. Fingers crossed that should start in the new year we are just waiting for workshop space and news that the fund raising has been successful.

All of this is much easier if you are in the position that the Railway own everything lock stock and barrel!

But the priority has to be the passenger stock, without that there is little opportunity to generate income.

 

This ought to be "A truth universally acknowledged"!

Paul H.

 

That in a nutshell is it - why else would the likes of I give up my free time & labour etc, to keep these " relics" running?...... & isn't that the whole point of a "heritage" railway - to preserve the past & showcase it to Joe Public?......

I for one enjoy helping restore & maintain the wagons on the MHR, for me its different to the "norm", but that said - I'd love to help restore the Bulleid coaches, though sadly at the mo, that isn't going to happen......

 

I'm not too sure how to take that as each station, if you delve into the website, is supposed to represent a different era, and the freight is supposed to be prototypical of the 60's........... though apparently we have enough pre grouping wagons to form a short rake of private owner wagons should we wish...... which is something I'm gently trying to push for with charters in mind......

As for your memories of growing up, I share your sentiments, though living near Crewe, anything was possible in that era of BR Blue...... though 33's less so.....but as you say, steam gets in your blood - I saw the demise of Steam on the Cunbrian Coast from the comfort of my pram as I wasn't even one at the time........ though slides & photo's that my dad took clearly show me enraptured by the sight & sound of steam!

 

[QUOTE="flying scotsman123, post: 999148, member: 21042"

Someone mentioned that there are barely any open wagons restored. Well I saw 4 GW grey open wagons at Bewdley today, all of them not looking too bad, yes a little faded, but if they looked shiny new they'd look odd anyway.[/QUOTE]

Only 4, eh? If you had gone to Bewdley in say, 1954, you could probably have seen twenty or more, especially in the sugar-beet season!
Mind you, you wouldn't have seen so many passenger trains.

 

The thing is to get people to come and help restore wagons and you don't need any more than a school boy woodworking skill and somebody to help show the way to do it and help to teach to operate the machines such as a band saw, cross cut saw, electric plain and hand held power tools, and you soon will have enough wood ready to re-pair/re-plank an open wagon and will be able to be able to stand back and say I did a lot of the work on that wagon.

Yes the amount I have learnt in the last 2 1/2 months in wood working helping doing restoration on a wooden body coach which includes rebuilding the frame of the coach, so if I can do it any body with a small skill can learn to do wagon and coach restoration.

What about some of the railways who have a good restoration centre for wagons trying to get a set of articles for the major railway mags to help push for the restoration of the black sheep of the family if this hasn't been done yet. With a list of the better restoration groups where they will be able to teach you the new skills you need.

 

Well the MHR Wagon group is full, volunteer wise!

Must be something to do with all that Bauxite........... and being pretty non PC......

 

You mean you all use Apple mac computers? Not sure how that helps with the woodwork...

 

Never mind, you'll get over what ever is ailing you....... I never said anything about woodwork!

 

Manpower is certainly one half of the equation. The other is money. If we want to ride in historic coaches, we have to be ready to put our hands in our pockets to supports appeals for their restoration, and to build sheds to keep them in.

 

Indeed, at Haven Street, the stock gets re-varnished every year and is now stowed away under cover when not in use. Between them, the carriage shed and c&w works have cost around £2 million. which, although the Heritage Lottery Fund have paid the major part of, represents a substantial commitment by one of the smaller heritage lines. This could do with being emulated

By the way don't overlook the contribution made by Gary Walker and his team towards the cause of wagon restoration and wooden framed ones at that. You don't need to wait for a charter or a gala to see these in operation. A monthly timetabled goods has run in 2014 with the "right" sort of motive power

Paul H

 

Oi ! - people power ! with the proper tools and equipment anyone can rebuild waggons and carriages ........ not just fellas. some staff as well as volunteers I know are of the female variety of person !
I must admit that females are a bit rarer than fellas in workshops .........

 

Being an old git of 70, I can remember very clearly what rail travel in steam days was like! It was unbelievably dirty and smelly (a heady mixture of coal and cigarette smoke, mouldy upholstery and BO), especially on suburban and branch lines. There were other delights- steam heating, which often meant that one compartment had ice on the windows, whilst the next would be like a sauna and wooden coaches with leaking roofs. On the up side, the view from the carriage window (if you could see out of it!) was a scene, in railway terms, of infinite variety, tidiness, human activity, even on the track- and lots and lots of wagons! Pre 1960s photos give a good impression of all this, but nothing but the experience can really do justice to the reality.
Of course, you would not want to replicate some of the above, but some of it you can and must, if you want to give an accurate impression of the real steam railway. That is why a heritage railway without a representative selection of restored wagons on view is not a re-creation of the past, just a sanitised "Disneyland" version.