Enquiry regarding a Mk2 BSO and Mk3 Sleeper

Hi All,

I'm am currently in the market for a couple of coaches for conversion to living accomodation and hobby (model railway) room, a Mk3 sleeper for the living accomodation and a Mk2F BSO for the hobby room. Someone I know who has a BSO that I've looked at has said the following:

"FL2 M.A's are pain in the behind, FL3's are more reliable, FL4B's as on an RFB are the most reliable"

Could someone clarify, for a youngster like me who's field of knowledge is steam, with some diesel but very little rolling stock, what FL2 M.A's are? My plan had been to have the BSO coupled to the sleeper and wire in a 240v supply to the sleeper through to the BSO. Will the FL2 M.A's cause any problems with this? Also does anyone know where I could source blueprints (to include wiring and plumbing) for both the Mk2 BSO and the Mk3 sleeper?

Many thanks

Stephen

 

I'm not familiar with coach wiring, but I'd hazard a guess that M.A. = motor alternator. If so, I'm guessing that wouldn't be relevant in a static installation, but I can't be sure.

No doubt someone more experienced in this stuff will be along in due course.

 

If your turning it into a home, wouldnt it be easier to start again with your own domestic wiring supply ?

 

Maybe but I'd prefer for the Mk3, which has it's own trip switches, to control the power supply to itself and to the Mk2, so in the future I have the option to power them off a generator if I decide to. Either way I'd prefer to have wiring plans for both just encase so I don't have to cause too much damage internally to locate wiring.

 

Hi Stephen
I work with the railways as an Maintenance Engineer and am heavily envolved with the Sleeper fleet. Why would you be interested in a Motor Altenator? To run the damn thing you need at least 650 V ac or 800-1000 V dc.... Obviously this would not be possible on a residential system.
Difference in MA's Vary. The bottom line is FL2 has a seperate excited to control motor speed
Fl3 provides easier access and the no volt relay is no longer mounted in the control unit. Also the MA will start even if no batteries are present.
There is a lot more detail that I could get into but I would be here for hours!

Technically you dont even need an MA. Most of the systems run off 28 V dc (lights aircon fans, even the power sockets can be fed from the 28V battery system with a 230 V inverter... (thats how we do it )
With the MA's installed you would seriously run into problems within weeks. voltage regualtion and charging is one of the major problems, with maintenance being required almost every month.
If you were wanting to power the Heating elements they would also require 1000 Vdc .
The way the MA works is that it takes an input of 650 ac or 800 dc and converts it into 3 phase 415ac and also 28V dc.
If you are trying to get the original aircon and heating to work without 3 ph ac.... theres no hope. The equiptment will not allow it and you could cause some seious damage.
I would seriously consider using any of the original heating elements unless you want a serious electric Bill....

Quick note on mark III again MA will require 1000Dc supply or 650 ac.


Sry I cant give you any documents and all information previously said should only be used for information purposes and could be inaccurate.
razzaa

 

I can probably offer some assistance. Fundamentally, BR coaches use a Electric Train Supply of 800v-1000v, AC or DC dependant on traction type. Which is nice and convenient if you happen to have a diesel locomotive with an auxiliary generator/alternator or the tertiary winding on an AC loco transformer. If you don't have either of those things, it's a problem. The Motor Alternator is a rotating machine which converts this "difficult" supply to more useful things. On a MkII that's basically 24volts for battery charging, vehicle control, but also 240v for cleaner's socket. Probably more I've forgotten. MkIIs used a variety of MA designs for this. The FL unit is simply the electronic control box for the MA.
A fundamental difference between the BSO and the Sleeper is that the Sleeper is a 110v vehicle, being much more modern. On a Sleeper, there is a single Mk12 MA and a combined battery charger/control unit, and this outputs 240v for cleaner's sockets, 110 v for vehicle control and battery charging and 415v 3 phase for the air con module.
All motor alternators have a common feature. They are unreliable and expensive to mend. Unless the BSO has been electrically looked after and is in remarkably good order, it will probably catch fire if you try to put ETS through it. This can cause a certain amount of unhappiness and angst.
If the vehicle are to be used domestically, you should rip the whole lot out and re-wire to the current IEEE regs with 240v standard domestic systems and appropriate protective devices. Weigh in th MAs, control units and cabling and you may just make a net profit overall.
Good luck.

 

So if I am to understand this right, where it might be possible to run a 240v supply to the MK2 BSO's batteries to charge them and thus run the electrical systems of lights, heaters and air conditioning it would make the most amount of sense to start from scratch with both vehicles? This I assume would mean a lot of panel removal to get to the current wiring, remove and relay new wiring, or is it possible to run 240v though the existing wiring but bypass the ETS? Sorry, not having any technical knowledge of rolling stock I'm flying blind with this idea, hence asking for help.
Cheers

 

I wouldn't reuse old wiring for anything, on a job like this.
safest bet would be to start with new domestic electric wiring, from a regular household supply.
Besides being safer, cheaper it gives you more options in what you may want to do.

When you start talking 3 phase, 480v power for a domestic supply.. Your opening an unnecessary can of worms... and start entering the realm of needing ground based power distribution units with step down transformers.. That's not cheap.

 

Thanks for that. Thinking about it it would make more sense to start from as then I'd know where to locate any problems that may occur. Presumably the air conditioning and carriage heating would not be able to be converted to run from 240v, thus requiring either the windows to be replaced with ones with openings in for ventilation, or new air conditioning units that does work off 240v to be fitted in place of the currently fitted units, and something like a central heating system in place of the currently fitted heaters?
Thanks for all your help by the way.

 

Another point to bear in mind is that the bodies of these coaches are not well insulated, so they are very cold in winter and the sleepers are very prone to frost damage. They might provide cheap initial accommodation, but the interiors are quite strongly built and demolishing parts to create living space will be hard going. To my mind you'd be better off starting with a gutted Mk 1 with a body in reasonably good nick.

 

I've been offered a gutted Mk2 BSO so it is my intention to purchase that one, possible with a sleeper car, though possibly with a second Mk2 BSO. If I am having to remove panels for re-wiring then I will likely remedy the insulation issue at the same time. I am thinking heating will be provided to both coaches by a central heating system, and I probably have two 240v compatible air conditioning units fitted in place of the original units to allow air conditioning during the height of summer. I have been advised that Mk2's are not that complicated to convert.