Ex LYR Stationary boilers @ Blackpool 1961

Hi All

I have tried numerous websites trying to find the identities of the 2 locos as steam stationary boilers at Blackpool in 1961
Does anyone have or know where i can find there identitiies please
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.net/p56411678.html
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.net/p55552651.html
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.net/p55552652.html
Many thanks in advance

Neil

 

Unfortunately, I can't answer that one. I can add this, though:



It was taken at Downhill Carriage Sidings, Edge Hill on the very significant 11th August 1968. I crawled all over it that day trying to find any identification but couldn't find a number anywhere.

 

They were LYR Barton Wright 0-4-4T engines. There were examples all over Lancashire and there was a report that the one at Lime Street had been acquired by the NRM but that seems to have been untrue.

Regards

 

Yes, they were apparently good enough engines, but became redundant when John Aspinall flooded the system with his 2-4-2 radial tanks. The 0-4-4Ts were still fairly new and not ready for withdrawal for the normal reasons, so were converted into stationary boilers and were dotted around various L&Y locations.

I've never heard of any NRM plans to preserve one, although it could have happened. The sad fact is that many of thes ex-engines survived to the very end of steam, witness the one at Downhill, but all went for scrap.

This doesn't help identify the individual engines though.

 

I believe Aspinall thought they were too small and their water tanks too small. There was something of a debate amongst loco engineers about the best wheel arrangement for smaller passenger tanks, 0-4-4T or 2-4-2T. Webb and Aspinall chose the 2-4-2T because it seemed to be 'better balanced' with the water supply directly over the drivers. But with this arrangement as the water was consumed the weight on the drivers decreased. With the 0-4-4T the weight on the drivers was constant because it was the weight of the cylinders and smokebox that applied to the drivers. I suppose it's a case of paying your money and choosing, Johnson went one way, Aspinall the other.

I'll try to see what I have in my library about these engines, but I doubt if it's much.

Regards

 

I knew these had survived until 1960ish but had no idea they were around until 1968 - a missed opportunity right up there with Ben Alder, I'd say. Mind you, I've no idea how the other two adams radials or the odd beattie got broken up either, and they were well known and revered survivors. I guess we were all just slow off the mark. I do have some excuse - I was only 13 in 1968!

 

In his book 'Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway in the 20th Century' Eric Mason mentions that these engines were used as stationary boilers but also refers to the difficulties attached to finding out which ones were so modified because the motion and coupling rods were removed as well as the makers plates. He says that 20, 61, 625, 636 and 912 had been identified but doesn't say where they went, but on the other hand they could be, and probably were, moved around.

It does appear that the original design had much larger water tanks but these were reduced in size in two stages to the small size seen in the photo above. It my well have been the origin of Aspinall's view that the 2-4-2T layout was 'better balanced'. Don't know but there were many other successful 0-4-4T designs particularly on the Midland.

HTH

 

I remember seeing a photo of these two in Railway Magazine in the late 1960's or early 1970's, I believe it was taken at Newton Heath where they had been taken to be cut up. Also a vague memory of seeing something about them in Steam World a few years back.

 

There has also been an article in Railway Bylines in recent years about them.

 

Reply received earlier today from the L&YRS

Neil


The “carriage warming boilers” (which is what they were used for) you refer to were at Blackpool Central as Blackpool North only ever had one boiler. The Society has had some detailed correspondence over the years about these ex Barton Wright 0-4-4T’s, of which there were a total of 9 at 9 different sites at differing times (sometimes in pairs), which were:



Single-boiler sites –



Blackpool North

Accrington

Southport

Colne

Irlam-o’ th’ Heights

Red Bank, Manchester



2 –boiler sites –



Blackpool Central

Cheetham Hill

Queen’s road, Manchester





There were also two ex-Barton Wright 0-6-2T’s, one at Garston Docks for heating banana vans.



The two ex – 0-4-4T’s at Blackpool Central have been identified as L&Y number 480 (BR No. 926) and L&Y No. 910 (BR No. 1). The BR numbers seem to have not been related to anything in particular; the boilers at Blackpool Central were numbered at one time 1 and 2!

 

That's interesting: it doesn't mention the one at Downhill Carriage Sidings. I can certainly vouch for its presence and, as the photo shows, that it was piped in and had the chinmey extention in place. On the same day I saw another boiler, this time a tailor made job mounted on what looks like a Bowen Cooke tender chassis. Since most fittings have been removed, It had obviously been out of use for some time.




Does anyone on here recognise themselves?

 

Not only do I know those 2 characters , I was with them when that photo was taken.

Bob.

 

The reply from the LYRS doesn't mention the example at Lime Street station. The stationary boiler photographed in 'LMS2968's post above isn't an 0-4-4T. It seems to be an outside framed 0-6-0, possibly a Kirtley DF engine?

Regards

 

No, you need to go to the first page of this thread to see the 0-4-4T; this was another boiler photographed the same day.

 

Sorry 'LMS2968' but I have looked again at the photo you posted above and I can't see an 0-4-4T with the drivers removed. I do see an 0-6-0, in fact a DF 0-6-0. Where was the picture taken?

Regards

 

The contraption in the photo was a tender chassis with a boiler planted on it . All of the L & Y tank locos used for carriage warming were o-4-4's.
There was a jinty (47564) at Collyhurst carriage sidings in Manchester. There was also 4F no. 44246 in the area. I saw it at Newton Heath in 1966 after the rest of the class had been withdrawn. This must have been used for carriage warming. Does anybody know where ?

Bob.

 

44246 was used at Cheetham Hill from 1.1965 to 6.66 after withdrawal from 8F Springs Branch in December 1964. It was scrapped in 7.1966

 

Yes, that's it, thank you.

Regards