Fife Circle - Flying Scotsman - 15/05/16

Hi everyone

My first post so please be kind!

With all the news recently of the Flying Scotsman doing its tour of the UK - I noticed that on 15th May it is listed as doing the "Fife Evening Circular".

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the Fife Evening Circular actually is and where it goes? I'm struggling to find some information on this online

Many thanks

James

 

Nominally the Fife Circle is a tour of Fife which - beginning from Dalmeny - crosses the Forth Bridge then heads up the main line to Dundee but turns off below Thornton Junction to run to Cowdenbeath then via Halbeath to follow the coastal line via Culross and Alloa to Stirling. After a short break the tour then continues via Larbert and Polmont to Linlithgow then via Winchburgh to Dalmeny. The tour can also be started from Edinburgh by going direct from Waverley to Dalmeny - and return to Edinburgh by not taking the junction at Winchburgh but continue on the main line.

For further information I suggest you look at the SRPS website - http://www.srps.org.uk/railtours/archive/rtprog14.htm - for further details

 

From what I last read on Steam Dreams site a week ago, it appears it's the Fife Circle only and not what we regard to be the Forth Circle route.

With Flying Scotsman due to be hauling a Tweedbank charter that day on what is the usual timings of steam charters on that route, she'll return to Edinburgh facing East I imagine. This will put the routing as follows :

Edinburgh Waverley - Portobello - Edinburgh Sub - Morningside - Haymarket West Junction - Forth Bridge - Inverkeithing - Burntisland - Kirkcaldy - Cowdenbeath - Rosyth - Inverkeithing - Forth Bridge - Haymarket - Princes Street Gardens - Edinburgh Waverley.

I may be wrong and have misread the details, but I'm sure it mentioned crossing the bridge in both North and South directions.

 

Given that FS is due to arrive in Edinburgh the previous day and is scheduled to operate the Fife Circuit I wonder if the borders charter will see the diesel work south and FS work north to save turning moves ? It would also mean an Edinburgh departure via the Gardens and returning via the direct route would leave FS facing the right way for its southbound departure. Should that be the case then I would assume this would be a one-off that could see many line-siders on the day.

 

It's a situation I'm hoping for, but I would expect the mass excitement currently following Flying Scotsman would dictate that she is the loco leading the train out of Waverley and down to Tweedbank that day, giving enough time for all the journalists and associated photographers to get news items together ready for that evening.

You could imagine it now. STV news at 6pm reports 'The Flying Scotsman left Waverley this morning for her first visit to Tweedbank in over 50 years', as the accompanied video shows a Class 67 hauling the Stock with No. 60103 on the rear. Sadly I can't see that being allowed to happen, it would seem an 'egg on face' moment, and that's from somebody who would much rather No. 60103 faces North!

 

Or possibly diesel leads Waverley-Tweedbank, 60103 returns, no turning ?

 

As mentioned above, I'd highly doubt they'd allow No. 60103's first miles over the old Waverley route to be dragged on the rear by a diesel. There will be a huge following by the national press and plenty of tv coverage. As said above, would be slightly embarassing to turn on to STV evening news and seeing a Class 67 drag Flying Scotaman and stock out of Edinburgh and down to Tweedbank as her first miles of a tour originating from Scotland, over a 'brand new railway'.

I'd love it to face North. The route is crying out for a Northbound facing steam tour in the afternoon, however I can't see it happening this time.

 

There are a number of 20mph restrictions on the northbound climb to Falahill so, from a performance point of view, it's probaby best having the steam loco leading on the southbound leg.

 

As mentioned above, I'd highly doubt they'd allow No. 60103's first miles over the old Waverley route to be dragged on the rear by a diesel. There will be a huge following by the national press and plenty of tv coverage. As said above, would be slightly embarassing to turn on to STV evening news and seeing a Class 67 drag Flying Scotaman and stock out of Edinburgh and down to Tweedbank as her first miles of a tour originating from Scotland, over a 'brand new railway'.

I'd love it to face North. The route is crying out for a Northbound facing steam tour in the afternoon, however I can't see it happening this time.[/QUOTE]
If the A3 takes it South, it will still have to be dragged back to Waverley ?Also could always start the tour from Tweedbank...

 

If the A3 takes it South, it will still have to be dragged back to Waverley ?Also could always start the tour from Tweedbank...[/QUOTE]

Indeed it'll have to be dragged back to Waverley, as are all Borders Route specials as of the current set up. However, what would look better to the papers? Flying Scotsman departing Waverley in the morning leading, or departing Tweedbank leading? I'd quite imagine the former is the picture the press, Steam Dreams and the NRM would want to see gaining worldwide notice.

Your other option of starting the tour from Tweedbank could work, but it would have to be in the format the SRPS had planned for No. 46233 this month. That would be Tweedbank to Edinburgh, round the Fife Circle and then back to Tweedbank. However, Steam Dreams are advertising the Borders charter and Fife Charter as separate runs on the Sunday, so doubt the SRPS model could apply.
So regarding them as two separate tours, you would require a stock move to Tweedbank, railtour to Edinburgh with a sufficient break, then back to Tweedbank before ECS to Edinburgh. To fit that all in a day, even a Sunday, on Borders Railway timings is a challenge. To do it all before an evening tour round Fife? I'd say madness, especially with a far easier option available.

Sadly, I would imagine No. 60103's visit will not be our chance to see a North facing steam hauled tour on the route. Sadly the oppurtunity with No. 46233 has been cancelled, so we'll have to hold on a little longer...

 

Even on a 21st century piece of new railway ? Some things never change...

 

'21st century piece of railway' - but using 19th Century infrastructure in the form of the bridges over the Gala Water and some famous viaducts further north.

My understanding is that the 20mph (and one 30mph) restrictions for loco hauleds are to prolong the life of the bridges.

Would really like to see top n tail steam as the timings dictate that the southbound climb to Falahill requires shovage.

 

Is there time to arrange with John Cameron for 60009 to make an appearance to provide the top 'n tail scenario ?

 

Correct.

The borders railway was built for everyday travel - which in today's world means DMUs that are far lighter than locos and are thus not restricted in speeds over said bridges.

 

Overkill ? In view of the above, what about a nice B1, kinder axle load...

 

Hi all,

This is my first post, so I hope I'm not being too forward.
All the discussion above is great, but does anyone actually know the route FS is taking through fife on the evening of the 15th and the approximate times?
Cheers

 

The under-noted times are shown in RTT BUT the original plan was to go to Stirling so whether the Stirling destination has been curtailed or the link is to a provisional schedule I cannot say.

Link at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54200/2016/05/15/advanced

 

Thanks very much Fred.
Given the departure time from Waverley it would seem to make sense to just do the Fife Circle without the Forth Circle route through Stirling

 

Probably a good job it's not doing the Forth/Stirling Circle, the last one I did, a few years ago, saw the newly painted SRPS stock end up with lots of scatches due to the encroaching foliage at a few places.

Dave