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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. meeee

    meeee Member

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    From the FR Facebook this morning.


    FFESTINIOG & WELSH HIGHLAND RAILWAY UPDATE:

    On Friday the 10th of September, a train on the Ffestiniog Railway was the subject of a minor low speed derailment affecting one carriage wheelset. There were no injuries resulting from the incident. As a result though, an earlier train running ahead of the affected train was stranded at Tan-y-Bwlch station.

    The RAIB were informed of the incident and the FFWHR team have worked with them in working to restore normal services.

    A further train was despatched to bring the passengers on the affected train back to Porthmadog and road transport used to collect passengers from Tan-y-Bwlch station. Passengers for Coed y Bleiddiau were also accommodated by special trains.

    As a result of this incident, train services were suspended for the rest of the day. Recovery operations were completed before dusk and the railway company wishes to thank the staff that worked extra hours to ensure this was completed safely and effectively.

    Work to repair the affected infrastructure is in hand on Saturday 11th September. All FR trains have been cancelled until Sunday 12th of September to allow sufficient time for repairs to be completed and all safety checks made. Welsh Highland Railway services are not affected.

    Trains have been stabled overnight at Tan-y-Bwlch station and extra security put in place.

    Our Booking Office and website are available for those requiring more information about train bookings.
    ____________

    Booking Office - 01766 516024
    Online Booking - https://bit.ly/2YzKpz5
     
  2. pgbffest

    pgbffest Member

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    5, 2, 3, 4, 1 are all in use. No. 8 is a Quarryman's rather than a bug box.
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Query re: latest 'Moving Pictures' (No.55), please The roundup from Blodge C&W covered a project by the now retired 'TeamX' mob (to whom big rrspect for all they've achieved over many many years. Enjoy your sort-of retirement folks, you've earned it!). Item in question, a very attractive part-built bogie brake carriage, putitively identified by the presenter as a NWNG 'Ashbury' recreation. Questions (a) Is it an Ashbury? If so, which was the inspiration? and (b) Is it bound for the Heritage Fleet? If not, what's the plan?

    Thanks in advance. :)
     
  4. meeee

    meeee Member

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    It's a NWNGR Ashbury brake composite. Two were built for the opening of the line but seem to have disappeared by WHR days. The underframe of one ended up as a timber waggon and cab be seen as part of the demolition train.

    They were designed by C E Spooner and were quite well appointed by all accounts. He also designed some others without the brake compartment that never got built. They were completed several years before the railway. By the time the line opened Spooner was no longer involved and the rather cash strapped NWNGR bought three humdrum four wheelers to go with them.

    It will be part of the F&WHR heritage fleet although I expect it will look more the part behind a certain 2-6-2 tank engine that ends in ussell.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Always good to have a long C&W update.

    My fantasy WHR rolling stock recreation would be the 6 wheeled Cleminson which is behind the Ashbury brake composite here.

    All it needs is a new build Snowdon Ranger :)



    [​IMG]
     
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  6. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Great idea. The GM could do with somewhere to keep his chickens.

    Tim
     
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  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Plenty of more suitable candidates for that role. It's not like obscurity, impracticality or absence of a role has been a barrier to other new builds.
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Many thanks for that. The entry for those beasties in the frequently compendious 'Festipedia' (in which I found no mention of this project) could certainly use a photo as, chronologically earlier than the 4w stuff, I wasn't too sure from the description. As well as the 2-6-2T alluded to, come the day, there'll be a certain 6-coupled single Fairlie, currently under construction, it'd look just as well behind.

    Couldn't help noticing that the (old) FR's own 'Ashburys' fared none too well either. Is that a reflection on original build quality? Or merely years of use in a somewhat soggier than average climate?
     
  9. nobopant

    nobopant New Member

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    The NWNG Ashburys were very well built to a design of Spooners similar to extant bowsiders. I think real problem was there was no undercover storage so gently rotted away. The later Ashburys were built to a price and nothing like the same standard.
     
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  10. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Having just been reading R. Shorland-Ball's history of the Southwold Railway, and his explanation of the inherent problems of the Cleminson arrangement in terms of flange wear, I must admit that I am now slightly sceptical of the idea of any new-build Cleminsons. If such a vehicle were built I suspect it would have to be a bring-it-out-once-a-year-for-the-gala proposition, rather than a vehicle for regular or even semi-regular use. I suppose you could investigate the feasibility of building a bogie version but then, doesn't that slightly defeat the object?

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
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  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interesting. That's the first I've heard of the issue, though I admit my knowledge of the arrangement isn't great. I'm straight away given to wonder how it's operation compares with the Heywood (locomotive) arrangement, the linkage on which (on paper, at least) doesn't look a million miles from Cleminson's.

    If considering the NWNG 6-wheelers, I suppose the example of the FfR's (former) Cleminson waggon comes to mind, where it's current incarnation seems OK without the added complications below deck. Would any reconstruction actually need to utilise Cleminson's designs? Or resort to bogies, for that matter?

    The old IWR bought a couple of 6-wheelers, from the bankrupt Golden Valley Railway, on which sufficient flexibility was gained by the simple expedient of a bit of extra sideplay on the centre axle, the outside mounting for the central axlebox being visible on the main frame members. From photographic evidence, they seem to have found favour on the Brading-Bembridge service. Although they don't seem to have lasted until grouping (the line bought several ex-Metn Rly 8-wheelers), I don't recall any mention of problems.

    I wasn't expecting to find a photo of the IWR carriages online, but .......

    8-Bembridge-train-in-1932-Phil-Marsh-collection.jpg
    [Image credited to rail.co.uk, certainly in Maycock & Silsbury's superb history of the IWR]
     
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  12. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Good point, I had forgotten about the 6-wheel wagons on the FfR. Obviously many SG railways successfully used 6-wheel coaches, how many of them used the Cleminson principle I don't know. But it is striking that the NWNG's Cleminsons had relatively short lives, and the MNR examples were little-used in their later years. The Southwold ones remained in use only because the company couldn't afford to replace them.

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    My thoughts were certainly that if one were ever built that it would be a high days and holidays coach. I am not envisaging it doing three trips a day like the 6 bug boxes are at the moment. There is always an element of what Arsene Wenger talked about when he said 'everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home' when it comes to projects and ideas, but considering Cleminson's role on the NWNGR there is little to commemorate him, his system is an interesting technological dead-end and is part of the NWNGR story, it seems to me to be a missing chapter. I don't think it anymore outlandish as an idea than new building Spooner's boat, or a Curly Roofed van or Sentry Box.

    Although in terms of recreating the image of the Ashbury, Cleminson and Snowdon Ranger, I have to admit that I'd rather see a new build Moel Tryfan ahead of anything else.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  14. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    The F&WHR are certainly lucky to have a big enough support base to be able to fund a few "WIBN" projects like the ones you mention. I take your point about the educational value of a Cleminson coach but I think we need to be careful of thinking we need to "fill every gap" in preservation. Realistically, it isn't possible to do that; and in any case a museum model of a Cleminson coach, turned on its side to show off the underframe, may be more valuable in explaining the principle than a full-size replica.

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
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  15. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Absolutely and that is why I described it as a fantasy new build. I would suggest that there are relatively few 6 wheeled vehicles in preservation more broadly, despite them being relatively common in the C19 so I think it would have a wider relevance to railway preservation than just part of the F&WHR story.

    But a model in the museum would certainly get the thumbs up from me.
     
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  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I hesitate to take the thread drift even further, and perhaps a new thread might be justified; but why were 6-wheel vehicles so popular at one time? Do they really give a significantly better ride than 4-wheel ones? Even if they do, is the improvement enough to justify the additional complications to allow to track curvature?
     
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  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I suspect no more than 'Bums per linear yard', with trains of first 6-wheelers, then (non-bogie) 8-wheelers having less untemunerative gaps between carriages. Recall that, on many lines, commuter stock operated in semi-fixed, close coupled sets, utilising short buffers (or single buffer) engaging plates on the adjacent vehicle. The perenially skint IWCR had examples of 4w carriages, from both GER and LSW, of nominally identical stock, though with short or long buffer shanks adorning them. Even there, I've seen NO examples of 'short one end, long the other and if making so bold a statement doesn't conjure up an image, nothimg's going to!

    Dunno 'bout a new thread, as I suspect this'l drift back to the F&WHR. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager someone's been cogitating NWNGR Cleminsons while we've been off nattering about other stock .... or something else 'on topic', involving sets of six wheels. I note no-one's so much as mentioned poor old Beddgelert.
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not quite sure what you mean by "'short one end, long the other". Do you mean on a single vehicle? If so, then it would be the normal arrangement on the end vehicles of a close-coupled set. The Bluebell's Metropolitans would meet that description, with short intermediate buffers and long buffers on the outer ends.

    Furthering the thread drift - close coupled sets do give "more bums per linear yard" as you put it, hence their attractiveness for suburban stock. A downside is that you generally have to withdraw the whole set for maintenance.

    Tom
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Indeed (do I recall the 'Cheshams' working as a 3 car set at some point?). I was thinking of vehicles bought 2nd hand, formerly in sets, which were fitted up as 'conventional' 4w stock for their final chapter service, rather than the 'in formation' arrangements when ordinarily used as part of close-coupled sets. Sorry if that wasn't clear. On the IWC, I've seen photographic evidence of both ex-GER and ex-LSW carriages, identical aside from buffers, though none with one end short, one end long. I've only seen photos of one item, a loco, equipped with odd buffers .... Pentewan's YE 2-6-2PT Pioneer ...... and if that doesn't produce photographic evidence of others, I don't know what will!
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I wasn't thinking of a 6-wheel coach versus a shorter 4-wheel one, but versus a 4-wheel one of the same length, exactly the same above the solebar but just missing the middle axle. Does that give a worse ride?
     

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