GB5 / Cathedral Explorer

Had a email about GB5 this morning, then looked at UKsteam for full itinery, of both tours.

Both are advertising traction that is in a pile of bits at crewe, with no date for return ie 60009 & 6100, and dont mention the ongoing saga of 4472!!!!

Surely they are walking on thin ice promising something that could not appear, due to no fault of overhaul teams.

 

The earlier of these two tours is seven months away. One would hope that both promoters have been told by the locos' representatives that they expect the locos to be ready in time. Obviously, as shown by the 6100 and 4472 overhaul's there can be setbacks which mean that nothing can be guaranteed. Advertise only locos that are currently in traffic? As has been shown recently with 46115 on The West Highlander, 30777 on the ACE, 60019 on The Whote Rose tomorrow, 70013 on the Shildon shuttles, etc, that it no guarantee that the locos will be fit the the time the tours run. The other alternative is to not advertise any locos and give rise to several months of speculation on this forum as to what they might be.

 

I think there is a big difference between a loco that is one piece with a bit of running behind it, and something that is not.

 

Then advertise a "pool" of locos with which you have contract arrangements. Proposing a wish list of hopefuls which are not the the subject of any form of legal commitment is playing fast and loose with punters money, company credibility and trading law.

The matter of current reliability issues amongst today's active fleet is something that exclusion clauses do cover, but is also an issue that once identified should be a matter of sharing amongst the movement. I have heard it said that it is now frowned upon for oiling up inside motion to be done from below, and that external capillary lines from easily accessible oiling points are required. Then 6115 goes down repeatedly and so does Tangmere, both with problems that appear to revolve around lubrication or clearances - fact or fiction??

Both are magic locos well capable of hard work, and I hate to see them laid low. Is there a problem with current arrangements or just a set of unfortunate incidents all coming together??

Both these tours are at the very upper limit of the price range and the intending passengers are entitled to be properly and reputably informed.

 

I don't think it's wrong, per se, to advertise locos that are still under overhaul 7 months before the date. What's needed (and appears to be missing from the on-line brochures I've looked at) is a clear statement in the brochure, explaining the situation and what will happen if the booked locos are unavailable.

Anyone who has booked on previous GB tours will recognise the name of 6100 Royal Scot and will probably draw their own conclusions ;-)

 

It's nice to know what the aspirations are for each leg of the tours.

Now we could run a "predict what will actually happen" competition on here, and give a special award to the person who comes closest

 

Well as regards last year's Inverness - Wick - Inverness I got it right on sight twelve months before the tour ran - pity the promoter didn't!


Its that sort of nonesense that the "Umbrella" thread is seeking to address.

 

And your umbrella body would doing what right now to RTC and Steam Dreams? Fining them for being naughty? Banning them? Telling NR not to allow the tours? Sulking?

 

That might actually be quite exciting !
Even more so if it involved a few black 5's and the owners all renumbered them, thus making it harder to know which one is really which !!

The idea of doing a week long trip and waking up each morning not knowing what will be on the front is quite appealing, in fact, that last couple I suspect were a bit like that

 

...and that's my main problem with your proposed "Umbrella". Yes, you were right about Wick (well done you), but others "in the know" said that Crewe to Glasgow and back in a day with steam couldn't be done and as for running steam all the way from Penzance to Thurso as per GB1 - no way! Yes, some promoters are rather over ambitious, but without people like this the mainline steam scene would be a lot less interesting (e.g. CMEs with only about 70 miles of steam as per the days of Mr Ward).

Returning to topic, I have to agree with Steamage that there should be a clear statement on the brochures that the locos shown are those they are hoping for and are subject to completion of their overhauls, but, as I said, the first tour is 7 months away so I don't have a problem with advertising locos that SHOULD be available. Anyway, to be honest, with the week long tours like these it's not really about particular locos - it's about the experience of touring Britain behind steam. If you want to ride behind a particular loco there will be plenty of one day tours to choose from.

 

You also forecast disaster for this year's West Highlander, just described by Railway Herald as "wonderful" and a "triumph". Only complaining I heard from fellow passengers was about the weather. Still, well done for your one good prediction two years ago.

 

Is there any need to continue this

 

Mr Moody - In respect of that tour, I wrote that a Scot with 6' 9" drivers would, in all probability, have difficulty with the climbs and curves between Craigendoran and Tulloch. On the day the West Highlander ran with three black fives, so the situation did not arise - thankfully. The tour consist was also notably less than in 2010 - "Lessons have indeed been learned"

I shan't repeat many other forecasts that have been borne out over the years for fear of sending you off to the keyboard again, and boring the readers.

I gather from my telephone call from the Alexandra, when I blew you a goodnight kiss down the phone, that the weather was too wild to even walk down to the Grog for a beer. We drove there, and sailed there, in brilliant sun earlier this year - that's the Scotland I enjoy touring.

Stay happy

Frank

 

Sadly Mr. Gradwell will bang on about RTC tours until the day he dies or RTC calls it a day. I don't believe for one minute that the GB tours fill up because the passengers are all idiots. It may just be that they've enjoyed past tours and are keen to do it again. I'd love to do one or a Cathedrals Explorer.

 

Please continue to do it - with my blessing, I hadn't seen one instance of a promoter being named on this thread, but if you will keep bringing certain names up..............

The topic is about how to attempt to reconcile, and properly inform the paying clientele, many of whom are neither enthusiasts or even UK nationals, about what they are paying for, and what they are likely to, in fact, see on the front of their train - which is actually of quite some importance when you are shelling out around two grand. I happen to believe that brochures in the travel trade should be accurate and legally compliant whether I am buying from Cunard, a railtour operator, or whoever, and that the buyer gets what is says on the tin. some appear not to - their choice, but it doesn't make them right, or discriminating consumers.

Personally I could not justify two grand to sit in a seat for nine days, but its great fun watching, and chatting, and having meals, beers, and fun with many of those who do. But when we do choose to follow, as with many Scottish tours, when scenery and weather and the presence of steam combine, we have the freedom of the road to visit the towns and facilities of our choosing along the way including many former railway installations such as the Ballachulish and Killin lines this year, and to meet and stay with many friends from various worlds as we have done on each occasion. In fact we and many passengers now look out for each other year after year! We have also found some superb hotels etc - and some not so superb too.

I did get verbally abused by one sad individual at Kings Cross off GBIII as a parasite, before we returned north by train, but it was water off a duck's back as he is free to choose his pursuits, and I mine, and its a free world where one can tour and watch - or not - as the mood demands.

As to motive power, let's be honest - Tangmere is in ticket, has a history of reasonable reliability, obviously is in gauge where many others aren't, and I quite fancy seeing her on Druimauchder. By comparison, a loco that has languished for over two years since a brief foray at Llangollen, being torn apart, and from what we read revealing horror story after horror story doesn't exactly inspire confidence for an early return.

No 9 with John Cameron's resources and determination behind her - she won't be too long, and what an inspiration he is at his age - and what an elder statesman of the movement. Lang may his Lum reek!

4472 - don't be too sure you won't see her before too long now - Let's be honest - everything above and below the frames was done - then those cracks came to light. When an overhaul is 100% in the hands of Baron St they have a habit of coming out working - straight off! Hogmanay present anyone?

In summary - I like to know what I am paying for and not to be literally "taken for a ride" If some are of another persuasion then that is their free choice - but it certainly isn't mine. I also know which is the better business model with more chance of long term survival. If you call that banging on, or ranting, live with it. I get value for my money

 

Let's save the fire irons for the footplate eh.

lets all talk about GB5 from this point on.

Anything else, feel free to create a thread, or an existing one and let loose there.

 

Everyone knows exactly with whom you have an axe to grind so no need to come over all innocent.

 

Peace.


:deadhorse:

 

Its alright John - I know exactly where to bury the axe!

 

Thats what worries me.