Gertrude

Just joined up here in search of info on the Barclay 0-6-0T "Gertrude", sister to "The Doll" at Leighton Buzzard. As I'm sure you are all aware, she was sent to Roanoke in Devon for a fast-track overhaul a few years ago, with the plan being to use her on the L&B at Woody Bay. Since the initial announcement all seems to have gone quiet, however this week I heard that the overhaul is now being undertaken by the Exmoor Steam Railway, and Gertrude will be going to Launceston when she is finished. As the railway world is full of rumours and speculation that don't turn out to be true, I'm just wondering if anyone here can actually confirm or deny this rumour and provide us with an update on Gertrude?

I have fond memories of riding behind The Doll at Leighton Buzzard when I was younger, and as I now live in Devon I'm rather hopeful that I will be able to have a ride behind her sister sometime soon!

 

There where some people up from L&B in the summer visiting leighton to check out doll at work. So I assume work is still ongoing, I also saw a picture in one of the January steam mags with here in just about 1 bit apart from valve gear. But I have tried posting on the L&B yahoo group but no more information is forthcoming.

peter

 

Gertrude seems to be in teh Bratton workshop that has just finished Axe, which would make you think it should be seen some time this year.

 

First Posting for me, but clearly we have a few mixed messages here.
It is no secret that Gertrude is under restoration in the Bratton Fleming workshop of Exmoor Transport; the magazine that had a photo of her was Rly Mag, though not sure which month, sorry, but work has been progressing well. The initial plan was to fast-track the restoration to give the L&B a working steam loco, but since the arrival of Sid and Axe (which was rebuilt at Gartell's near Templecombe NOT in Bratton) there is no plan as yet where the locomotive will see her first public steamings, so anything you have read up to now is pure speculation. For the record Roanoake were never involved in the loco's restoration, although as their workshop is on the same industrial estate as Exmoor Transport I can understand how things might get confused. Also The Exmoor Steam Railway, which is also not far away, has no associations with the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway either. The engineers are pushing on to complete Gertrude ASAP but I am told, today, that when a date and real news regarding her first steamings can be published then they will be happy to tell all - it is too soon to give a date or location, but all being well we all will get a chance to ride behind her in 2009 and when I know some more I will post details.

 

With regards Gertrude coming to Launceston, as far as I am aware, at present there are no plans officially for her to be based on the LSR. There has been mention of her possibly doing trials on the LSR, but it is too early to comment if this will occur.

However (going off topic), Adrian Shooter's Darj is coming to Launceston this summer.

 

As of yesterday, I understand that once the boiler work is completed by Exmoor Steam Railway possibly as early as next May, the engine will be going to Launceston for trials. What happens after those trials is anyones guess at present.

There are currently no plans for 'Gertrude' to operate on the L&B at Woody Bay.

Chris

 

Very interesting reply but no matter where it is will be good to see Gertrude working again. Hope she will be as much fun ans Doll is to operate.

 

I'd be interested to see how long it is before they're lined up together.

 

If someone put up the money it could happen quite quickly but I am not it is possible a the leighton buzzard as doll has been "tweaked" in order to get round one of the curves.
So more possible for it to be a Gertrudes new home.

 

Thanks Peter, Alan, Charlie & Chris for the replies.

Anyone able to comment on why she's doing trials at Launceston instead of the L&B (especially given that the L&B is virtually on the doorstop of where she's being restored)? Is it due to the involvement of the Exmoor Steam Railway with the boiler work; if I remember correctly the ESR trialled their new-build Quarry Hunslet at Launceston a few years ago, so I presume there is a good working relationship between the ESR and LSR?


I'd rather like to see her stay in Devon, but as there is only one railway that she could be based on in Devon (unless the mooted Braunton scheme gets off the ground!!), which now seems to have been ruled out as her new home, I guess she will be off to pastures new and I will have to catch her on her trials just over the border in Cornwall.

 

The LSR being a private venture, is a far more controlled environment that the volunteer run L&B. Nigel and Kay are able to completely control access to the site.

 

I believe that the company carrying out the work on Gertrude is Roanoke Engineering Ltd. which I take is associated with the transport company.

By the way can anyone enlighten me on Gertrude's builders no? Don't think I've ever seen it quoted.

Ian

 

A.Barclay 1578 of 1918 according to www.uklocos.com


Keith

 

As noted previously in the thread, Exmoor Transport were undertaking the overhaul rather than Roanoke, with Exmoor Steam Railway undertaking the boiler work. The riveting gear from Launceston went up to Exmoor SR a few weeks ago for the boiler work and last I heard Trevor & Julie Stirland were busy with the foundation ring.

Yes there is a "good working relationship" between Exmoor SR and Launceston. Launceston would also be preferable to the L&B for trials as there are extensive workshop facilities and engineering expertise on site, enabling any teething troubles to be ironed out with ease, and also a reasonable length run for running locos in. There are one or two other reasons Launceston is likely to be where Gertrude has her trials but it is probably best not to go into these on a public forum.

 

If anyone is interested, Gertrude's boiler has been successfully steam tested following work carried out by the Exmoor Steam Railway, and final reassembly is currently underway. It is hoped that she will be on test at Launceston in around a months time.

 

I have heard that she might be visiting another railway soon after completion is this true?

 

I believe her owners are quite keen, once trials have been completed at Launceston, for Gertrude to be spirited up to Leighton Buzzard for a reunion with Doll.

 

The new issue of Narrow Gauge News (NGRS) says it is hoped that Gertrude will be at Leighton Buzzard August 29th-31st, There's also a picture of the loco at Blackmoor Gate in May, looking pretty complete but apparently before the boiler work was done.

 

For the benifit of all reders of this thread and for clarity I am going to write the facts behind all this. From my personal point of view and involvement, this is not a statment by the ET company but from me as the Engineer who chose the loco for the job and worked on and funded its restoration with others of similar commitment

"Gertrude" was negotiated from the owners on a contract lease by the group of L&B members known as "Exmoor Transport" , the restoration was assesed by ET for the sole purpose of supplying a long period hire loco at low cost to the L&B, of a reliable and suitable loco to run service trains.

The reason was because there was no money in the L&B after building the railway track construction, coaches and all the other bits needed and the hire of locos was expensive and without suitability or continuity . At that time it was never intended for Gertrude to work anywhere else except Woody Bay she was spec'd for the job.

Management changes took place within the L&B in 2007, the current management decided to spend considerable sums of money on finishing AXE and have since spent considerable money on SID to keep it running and to detatch themselves from anyone else.

Many members of the older L&B worked enthusiastically on the loco at Bratton Flemming works which was next door to Roanoke, it was intended by ET at the start of the restoration that Roanoke would play a significant part in her restoration, however that did not happen for financial reasons as ET could not afford the potential bill and Les Myself and the ET shareholders decided to go it alone and commited the money and time to rebuilding her.

Some people like to think they have wone when they run you out of town , but if you've got horses betting is sooner or later you will need a farrier or a blacksmith.

The L&B workshops were provided and paid for by the L&B Trust throughout its life except. In the last months of its occupation ET paid all the costs of keeping the facility open, whilst the Railway chose to go elsewhere for its engineering support .

The machinery and tools "as contents" were largely not the railways property, these were provided mainly by Me and others, to enable the L&B project and workshops to get off the ground to do what it needed to do and it did.

Whilst it was a distance from the railway it served a very strategic roll in that it did all of the engineering manufacturing and design at minimal cost, such as all 4 coaches were built there,ex MOD bogies were regauged from 2'6" to 60cm, the balast hopper was built there, new bar frame replica bogies were made for van 23 were made from scratch , Heddon Hall was regauged & fitted out, Holwell castle was built there, the redesigned K2 bogies that now run under the 4 Woody Bay coaches were built there and a whole host of other projects that have faded into history now .

My view and this is fact as I was in the middle of it all , is that it was closed by the L&B current railway management, because the people that managed the workshop dissagreed with themon a number of issues.We were also too smart, too lean, and to able to do what we saw was neccessary in the face of a management who wanted to think they know better.All I can say is they have shown to know different but unlikly better.

The current L&B management thought that all the contents were the railways property and intended to move it all to Woody Bay shed at their opportunity and have it under their control as part of the £ 30million new L&B built with the massive Grants that their business plan is designed to exist on .

The previous management of the railway saw a stand alone purpose for the detatched engineering facility, they were more capable and diverse, and prepared to negotiate with the engineeers at the workshops to devise solutions on how to open the railway.

Gertrude was taken on before the change of management and was sidelined so that other work could take priority in the workshop, which was fair.

The L&B had a case of desperation in and up to 2007 for motive power supply , when Gertrudes chasis was test run a Woody Bay it was evident that Regauging was going to be neccessary , a large proportion of the Trustees of the railway, would not commit to anything in the way of a deal until she was finished not even a commitment to use her if she was suitable and was finished.

Bearing in mind we were doing this for the sole benifit of the L&B project and we were confident we could do it as with all the other work we had done to reopen the L&B some were saying in the background , "They will never do it" , other experts amongst the management were saying "it doese'nt have the power or adhesion" to pull the 4 Thorpe park coaches up from Killington Lane and it won't be capable of doing the job Quoted as" Could not pull the skin off a rice pudding".

I knew from cross reference of locomotive build data on all engines of the size grate area cylnder dimensions and dead weight adhesion , exactly what her capability would be and this was confirmed by Doll's operators. Gertrude was the ideal loco design for the job and has since completion proved this. She would have been capable and in balance with the current stock of 4 Keef coaches but would also look compatible with 2 full size L&B coaches and have the adhesion to pull them with a very efficient level of coal burning and use of water, over the lengths of line that are likly to exist in the next 10-15years.

There's commitment and confidece for you. I had plenty of confidence, seems that others who cannot do this sort of work did not .

Since the Bratton Workshop was closed by the current management of the L&B. There has been no new items of interest appear at the L&B, except what they have paid other people to produce , I doubt there will be , Lets watch for 762,the new full size coaches or any coaches for 2012.

Problem is any of the original locos are too big for this opperation and to costly to hire or build and their fuel consumption based on grate area is about 4 times the size of fire. Thats a lot of coal and thats a lot of money drain.

Never mind we did do what we said we would ,we built all those things in the workshop and now we have finished Gertrude sadly we will not be doing any more similar projects and someone else has the benifits of our labours, the workshops are gone and we were thankfull that Exmoor Steam assisted in the final completion and boilerwork under contract, to enable her to be complete for you all to enjoy dispite considerable opposition, and making things awkward for the sake of it .

I hope this has been suitably informative to answer those people who have an interest, and have posed questions . In a better world we would have taken the L&B much further into the future using sound engineering judgement .Other people decided on a different plan .

Who was the biggest looser in all this ?? I know. Fair that others should have the ability to look into the looking glass of the L&B and chose for themselves based on knowing the facts .

 

...bit harsh in places isn't it?