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GWR Royal Saloons

Discussion in 'Heritage rolling Stock' started by Peter Hall, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    Can anyone who has first hand knowledge of the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway confirm whether or not GWR Royal Saloon 9007 is now at the railway or not. The VCT GWR 9007 Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Saloon built 1945 still records it as being at Carnforth where similar 9006 GWR 9006 Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Saloon built 1945 is also believed to be still located. 9007 has been the subject of recent debate as to its current location and status but interestingly the NRM website has recently been updated with regard to it GWR 9007 royal saloon - Our collection - National Railway Museum implying that it remains part of the collection and is now on loan to the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway.

    If 9007 is indeed at the railway does any one know when it arrived and whether it will be on display to the public at all?
     
  2. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,
    GWR 9007 is festering at WCR Depot Carnforth.
    For a recent photo Flickr.....search Carnforth Depot 9007.
    GWR 9006 is there as well...though no photos discovered yet.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/r-c-t/14408434389

    Or search for Tim R-T-C album: WCRC depot Carnforth June 2014

    Hope that helps

    Nick
     
  3. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    link doesn't work
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    same here, 404 page not found.
     
  5. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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  6. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture Friend

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  7. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    that works...thanks. Shouldn't that be under cover?
     
  8. weltrol

    weltrol Member

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  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Funny that various places seem to think it's something to do with GWSR, it seems to have left in 2010, after GWR175, (presumably also the reason it arrived, all the brain child of Andrew Goodman o doubt) if indeed this is what we are talking about:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Maybe it's the difference between being on loan to the railway and the railway Plc.? as 44027 is listed as on loan to Gloucester and Warwickshire Railway whereas the saloon is listed as on loan to Gloucestershire and Warwickshire Plc....
     
  10. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    Isn't there a chappie from the NRM on Nat Pres?
    Maybe he might know what's happening re 9007?seems a tad sad that these two coaches...9006/7 appear to be out in the Lancashire elements....reminds me of another GWR coach also left out in the elements.......perhaps the heritage movement will start putting the 'treasures' under cover before they are cheaper to scrap than restore.
    ......I did notice the other coach on Flickr....did not realise that it was 9006.....thought that it was under cover......
     
  11. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    I would have thought that the GWSR would have been over joyed having a Royal Saloon to play with.....private hire in a Royal Carriage??? Paint it back into GW colours....cream teas......! They did lose the GW inspection saloon.....now I believe on the GCR. From the GWSR C&W blog....a good gang Me thinks.



    Nick
     
  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Thank you very much :D It's a real pity our lack of interesting coaching stock. As you say, the GW inspection saloon can't have left too long ago, as I can remember that parked at Toddington whilst travelling with my work permit, so less than 2 years ago. thn thre was the LMS saloon that was beautifully restored a bit before my time but I've seen pictures of it on the open day display boards that is now at the SVR doing nothing, at least that was sheeted last time I looked. Then there's the few very sad coaches behind the C+W workshops that are slowly disapearing, these are of LMS design, and some of them looked like they'd been worked on in preservation times as well. Never mind, plodding along with MK 1s...
     
  13. K14

    K14 Member

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    If they're allowed to...

    I saw one of these ages ago in Bishop's Lydeard goods shed. Strictly 'look, don't touch' policy in force, I assume at the NRM's behest as the interior is ex-service.

    VCT lists 9006 as being owned by St Modwen Properties, but 9007 as NRM.

    Irrespective of ownership, leaving a timber-framed coach outside for any length of time does them no favours at all.

    Pete.
     
  14. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,Yes St M.....do not ,from my limited experience like to answer emails about obscure railway vehicles.........
    The Clerestory Sleeper is a 'look' but do not touch and I think having waded through the 200 plus pages on this forum re the WSR the Insp Saloon is 'Limited' . I some times think the heritage railway world get the words conservation and conservative mixed up. Seems being 'Bold' is frowned on. The days of being 'Heritage' are fast disappearing to be replaced by Commercialism.
    Off my soap box.

    Great shame these and a few other unique GWR vehicles are ' residing' in that place.

    Anyone else out there interested in see if something can be done? ....a thought......


    Nick
     
  15. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    I have been asking questions of said chappie with regard to these two saloons for a couple of years now and still await definitive answers. What is clear from the pictures is that both are now in considerably worse condition than when accessioned into the national collection in 1987 following years of TLC by the Royal Train team at Wolverton.

    It has been established from the chappie that 9006 along with GWR Inspection Saloon 80970, BR 4-whl flat with road/rail tanker M707111 and ICI Chemical Tank 47484 have been de-accessioned from the collection and have passed to a former director of the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway. The reasoning for the de-accessioning is unclear and I do find it strange that the saloons in particular did not pass to a museum collection in line with NRM stated disposal criteria.

    If indeed 9007 is on loan to one of the Gloucestershire - Warwickshire Railway family it could well be a 'ticking cash bombshell' for the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway. If the loan agreement requires return in a similar condition to that when initially loaned out then the deteriorating condition may be expensive to put right. Of course, it may be that the current directors are oblivious to an arrangement agreed by a former director.

    The one seen by K14 "Ages ago in Bishop's Lydeard goods shed. Strictly 'look, don't touch' policy in force, I assume at the NRM's behest as the interior is ex-service" was 9007. How sad it is to see what has happened to it since. Perhaps 'Steam Railway' needs a follow on 'Special Analysis' to that in the current edition focusing on custodianship of the NRM / National Collection rolling stock collection in recent years. 9006 and 9007 are some of many.

    I am not aware of 9006 ever being owned by St. Modwen Properties although prior to being moved to Carnforth it was in open storage at the St. Modwen Properties Long Marston site.
     
  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Have you tried using the feature where you can draw someone's attention to a post in the following manner;

    @Peter Hall

    To raise their awareness of the question?
     
  17. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    Thanks for the reply......will do some research .


    Nick
     
  18. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    It isn't just the GW coaches that are mouldering away at Carnforth, an important LNER pre-war steel panelled saloon in the form of "Loch Eil" is too.
     
  19. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    Worth remembering that; Firstly, WCRCo, Carnforth also offer a commercial storage facility for rolling stock owners with presumably different tariffs for open and covered accommodation; Secondly, other than GWR 9007 (National Collection) all other carriages at Carnforth are owned privately by companies and groups. Consequently it is up to the owners whether they ley them moulder or not.

    My understanding is that WCRCo are the owners of "Loch Eil", having acquired it with the site from Flying Scotsman Enterprises. WCRCo have in the past been willing to sell carriages so it is possible they may be open to offers for this from those with deep pockets.

    Obviously though, as GWR 9007 is National Collection it is rightfully a concern that it is apparently not being well looked after. Also, presumably someone will have to pick up the tab for its storage at Carnforth at some future date if they are not already doing so. After the revelations aired in Railways Illustrated last spring we have been assured that all transactions between the NRM and WCRCo are now properly invoiced so a charge must be being levied.
     
  20. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    As far as I know, Loch Eil is owned by the site owner. Some large offers have been made for it over the years, but he apparently doesn't want to sell it (as is his prerogative) because "he intends to do it himself one day". Yeah right, just like the other non-Mk 1 coaches he's done for himself!

    Carnforth generally is a shame. The coal stage and ash plant ought to be Grade 1 listed as the sole survivors of an era, not left to fall to bits
     

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