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Heritage railways killing the world...yeah right

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by hogger, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Agree with everything you posted there Dalrypaul and I also have has a chance to examine a lot of conflicting evidence through an Environemntal studies course I am currently doing. There is a no doubt that the earth is warming at a far greater pace than at anytime in it's history and these patterns can be traced back an extremely long time by examining ice cores. This rapid increase in warming ties in very nicely with the Industrial revolution and man's love affair with fossil fuels. Yes, it is perfectly normal for the planet to warm and cool (which is the fact most sceptics seize on), what is unnatural is the rate this warming is taking place as it outstrips nature's ability to adjust and adapt to change, through evolution.
    So how does this environmentalist / steam enthusiast consider steam locos as potential polluters? With my environmental hat on they are terribly inefficient, they burn coal that is the most polluting of all fossil fuels and if we still had thousands of them running around they would probably be considered an environmental nightmare. However, China is currently building 2 new coal fired power stations a week that burn in a day what a steam loco could use in it's lifetime. China's coal industry is now responsible for 14% of global carbon emmissions, up from 10% a decade ago. That's where the world's issues lie! I believe a study revealed that a 12 coach mainline steam excursion was considerably greener than equivalent passenger journeys by car so I really don't think we can consider ourselves to be the harbingers of doom for our planet. Incidently, I wonder how many flights the Mid Hants nimby has made? Air travel accounts for a third of all Carbon emmissions on the planet.
     
  2. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay New Member

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    All this debate about climate change is folly. The world as we know it will come to an end one day, but it won't be due to climate change.
     
  3. laplace

    laplace New Member

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    That is probably true for railtours: the original Scotsman ran 400 miles on one load of coal (9 tons), which assuming 14 coaches would use it all would be 43g/seat-km standard class, 66g/seat-km 1st class; an average car emits 160g/km.

    My earlier calculation suggests heritage railways are a lot worse on a per-mile basis (less full trains, less skilled crews, and in our case, steep gradients), but that the distances travelled on them are too short to make a significant contribution to CO2 emissions.
    No, its climate impact (including both CO2 and non-CO2 emissions) is currently about 6% globally, 18% in the UK; it's a major concern because demand is growing and aircraft emissions are harder to reduce by technical means than the other major sources.
     
  4. Christoph

    Christoph New Member

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    Hello all,

    may I come back to the original problem, rather than CO2 emissions on a global scale?

    Personally, I would really like to see a link to the "social networking site" mentioned in the first message of this thread, assuming that this is open to everyone.

    We have similar problems here in Germany, too. I am a regular volunteer at the Hannover Tramway Museum. A new neighbour started complaining to the authorities about noise from tramcar gongs, flange squeal in the curve to one depot access track and general vehicle noise. We now have rules in place to restrict the use of gongs, grease the curve before we use it and stopped most vehicle movements after 20:00 h. However, this winter some new track will be laid which takes the main running line closer to the houses nearby and we will have a turning circle with the resultant noise. It looks as if we might have to install a flange greaser or at least water or grease the curve regularly.

    Other heritage lines/museums with similar problems I know about are the Dampfbahn Fränkische Schweiz at Ebermannstadt, the Bavarian Railway Museum at Nördlingen and the Schwäbische Waldbahn at Schorndorf. In some cases the railway/museum was taken to court. Usually some change in operating procedures helped a lot, even though there are still the odd NIMBYs who fight for the sake of fighting. For those with some knowledge of German see http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/read.php?108,5101306,page=1 for a similar discussion like this one from last November on the German forum Drehscheibe-Online.

    Kind regards

    Christoph
     
  5. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    Guten abend Christoph,
    And many thanks for your contribution which I may say is excellent English, so much better than some Englishmen I could mention:)

    Seriously though a good point you have made about a link to the "social network site" giving people the right to reply, so is ther any chance of us doing this please guys?

    Kindest regards
    Chris:
     
  6. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR New Member

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    My personal view is that it's best not to attempt a reply to a housewife/househusband whose main concern is dirty washing and smells from a nearby steam railway. In their view they have a valid complaint. Nothing you can say will change that, it will just exacerbate matters.

    As mentioned above, best is just to get as many other local people on your side as possible, by being as nice to them as you can. Outvote the opposition, don't try and get them to change to your side :)
     
  7. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    Hi

    Perhaps the Moderators would be kind enough to explain why my posting was deleted and not have the common decency to inform me.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  8. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Another, as yet unmentioned, aspect of heritage railway carbon footprint (or other sustainability measure) is our unrecognised contribution to REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE rather than scrap, reprocess & make new with all the consequences for natural resources which that involves.

    Compared with the modern railway, motor transport & many other aspects of modern life we are experts at getting full use out of otherwise dicarded items - perhaps we should make more of this? - certainly we need to be ready with it when adverse views are expressed towards our activities.
     
  9. Richard66

    Richard66 New Member

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    I don't remember what the published figures were, but when you take into account the amount of CO2 and pollution produced in the manufacture of new cars, then the recent scrappage scheme was actually more harmful compared to keeping the old cars on the road. Another big source of pollution is the manufacture of concrete, but we don't see new taxes being levied on concrete use do we ?
     
  10. The Decapod

    The Decapod New Member

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    Heritage railways, by their very nature, are not environmentally friendly. Steam locomotives do pollute, and so do diesels to a lesser extent.
    But then neither is a large rock festival environmentally friendly, nor an air display. What about all the collective pollution caused by a big football match, if you include all the emissions caused by people travelling to that match?

    I can see that line-side residents might have an issue with pollution, particularly if the pattern of operation changes compared to what they're used to.
     
  11. steamdream

    steamdream New Member

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    Yes this rant is quite ridiculous (I suppose that most of the preserved raiways are more and more careful about smoke emissions I hope too, that railwys photographers are more responsible in avoiding that stupid stance" please make smoke for my camera sir!"
    BUT I'm very shocked about the silence of all this people(pun intended) about the noise specially about motorbike noise: in France it's a plague since the 80's and I was thinking not in UK!error! I have not visited your country since 10 years , and I have just (in july) toured it with the purpose to"make" a lot of preserved railways and i'm astonished by the proliferation of very noisy bikes illegaly fitted with racing exhausts and , it seem me don't matter to british public AND police! all deaf?very sad indeed :tsk:
    Formerly you were a very great people a very great country, an exemplary civilization please my friends please dear britons come yourselves again!
    regards
    noel
     
  12. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    I see no word still from the mods as to why they pulled my contribution.

    Are they all pig ignorant or is it they like to show us who is Boss.

    They make me sick sometimes.

    Regards
    Chris:
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    As always it's the minority who make the noise. For every bike with an illegal exhaust there will be many more with legal ones. It's just that the noisy ones by their very nature will be the ones you notice most. In the greater scheme of things our countries have much greater problems than noisy bikes.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    What a lovely juxtaposition! The real Rumpole would never write such twaddle

    The railway has a perfect legal right to be there, and to conduct its business in any manner that does not breach smoke emission rules, or amount to statutory nuisance.

    If the daft bat wants to mount a serious legal action rather than wasting electrons with an internet rant she would get very short shrift.

    Her legal rights expire with her title - at the end of her garden. After that she has the same rights as anyone and any company - under the law - and they do not include trying to apply pressure to change or terminate perfectly lawful activities
     
  15. Rumpole

    Rumpole Member

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    I'm afraid that in your bluster and keenness to point out the error of people's ways, you have missed the general nature of the quote to which I was responding. The fact of the matter is, whether the complainer has moved there recently or has been there for decades, they can complain. They can complain about, as you correctly say, smoke emissions, noise, take your pick. The rant on Facebook is particularly about smoke emissions; one of the areas that we both know can be (and is frequently) complained about.

    So people can't complain about what goes on beyond the end of their garden; how many heritage railways will have regular visits from the local environmental health officer? I know mine does, and I know I have in the past been pulled up on things done while said EHO was there.
     
  16. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    Erm actually Frank it is not a woman but a man who has hidden behind an alias.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings:)

    Regards
    Chris
     
  17. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Have you PM'd them?
     
  18. steamdream

    steamdream New Member

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    greater problems????? yes of course!!!!!! BUT this behaviour which is exponentially expending in our countries illustrate the quick falling of ethics , civism = very noxious for Democracy(look at the riots)
    I remember you that that type of noise is very very hazardeous for Health but, apparently HSE, Police don't matteranyway! :nerd:regards*
    noel
     
  19. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Far worse than the road bikes, which are here and gone in a flash, are the off-road bikes which plague the footpaths and parks around our town. Most are unlicensed, not insured, not silenced and ridden recklessly. Sometimes they go round and round for hours. We used to have a off-road police unit who attempted to nail them, but of course they've been disbanded due to the cuts!
     
  20. belle1

    belle1 New Member Moderator

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    Hi Chris, in answer to the above, the post was modded because it contained an email address of the guy who is complaining on the social network site. This thread is viewable to anyone, not just Nat Pres members. It is very likely that people would possibly send hate emails and suchlike and the forum would not want to be linked to such behaviour. The email address would also be picked up by these spam bot things and again the forum would not like to be linked to this.

    As to not having an explanation that was probably an oversight by the moderator who removed it. We do tend to PM members when we move stuff but do make the odd mistake, as I have done in the past I have logged on to just check something else out in my break from work and spotted a reported post and dealt with it and had to log off again.

    I did recently politely PM a new member who had posted some pretty offensive stuff to get a reply that questioned my parentage and suggested that I and the mod team were female body parts amongst other things... :censored:

    Hope this helps, Neil.

    BTW, I am logging off shortly as the day job calls again and my brews gone cold....
     

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