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Isle Of Man Steam Railway

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by David Bigcheeseplant, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Additional to the list by @Chrisw77 (I agree, it is very exciting ... even before you consider the current crop of carriage work bubbling away quietly), has there been any official statement concerning No.8? I recall Ray mentioning a boiler not in the first bloom of youth and pretty tired chassis, but it occurs that, out of peak season, Fenella in good nick ought to reduce the coal bill a bit, plus likely being a popular choice for photo charters (even moreso when the current IoMSRSA van restoration comes to fruition!). Pretty useful as a pilot engine too, for those times when Mannin has already strolled off south with a monster cruise ship train. With the welcome developments before covid and the IMR's inspiring and well received performance for the island's captive population since, I see nowt wrong with a little optimism! :)
     
  2. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    Will The Engine That May Not Be Named likely to come back? There's no other 3' line in the UK they can run it on (are any of the 3' Irish lines in a running state at the moment?). Presumably if it's being restored there has to be some optimism of running it?

    Equally, the Southwold engine has to be a candidate for galas in the near future?
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Clearly now to be referred to as "The Engine Which Previously Could Not Not Be Named" as there is another "Engine Which May Not Be Named" owing to to purely practical considerations surrounding it having nowhere on the few surviving parts to put a nameplate and then there's Derby ..... or rather, there sadly isn't. There, that's that sorted out. :)

    I'd love some 'official' pronouncement on the state of Purdah* too, but now news of the loco has appeared in the press, albeit 'neath a piccie of Palmerston (obviously intended to confuse the unwary), perhaps that was the announcement?

    With an asbestos-free Sutherland looking superb in tbe museum, next to the equally well presented and detoxified Peveril (congratulations to those involved in both), the emergence of Mona and Douglas from their hermetic home, some announcement on Mannin at some point and Maitland soon to return to service, we should have enough to keep us happy without mentioning Thornh ..... oh, b♡gg*r!


    *Although it would make an interesting name for an IMR loco, it isn't!
     
  4. Chrisw77

    Chrisw77 New Member

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    i may be wrongly presuming here but would think it would be heading home at some point to run on the imr, especially since the mnr coach is back too and they are owned by the same person aren’t they.
     
  5. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Giant's Causeway line is operational although they seem to have given up using steam.
    Suir Valley is operational although it has always been a diesel operation to date with aspirations stated from time to time about running steam
    Fintown is operational, again it has always been a diesel operation to date with aspirations stated from time to time about running steam
    West Clare - I think this is still operational, although it's really a one man band
    Cavan & Leitrim - @Avonside2 could confirm, but I think they are still working on upgrading their trackwork
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If we're including the RoI, mustn't forget https://stradballyrailway.webs.com/ :)
     
  7. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    I thought Stradbally was 2'?
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Certainly not the main running line. It's home to at least one of Tom Rolt's (unrebuilt) siblings which used to work at Giant's Causeway and a lot of other ex-Bord na Mona kit.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I knew I'd forget at least one line!
    A slight correction though-Roisin (at Stradbally) never worked at the Giant's Causeway railway. You are thinking of the other sister loco 'Shane', which is still at the GCR with Peckett No1 'Tyrone. Both locos have been stored out of use for several years.
     
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  10. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    I'm a bit bemused by the direction the thread has taken with the wild speculation re presumably 14 and am wondering why anyone would think that a locomotive owned by an enthusiast who is a life long Island resident who took the time and expense to preserve it near to its original home line would do anything other than return back to its Island home?

    I would guess that they would be planning to come to some sort of arrangement with the IMR re running if they felt it was viable to invest the time and money in a working restoration as that's the only decent bit of line you can run a 2-4-0 3' gauge BP tank on Island as the MER isn't that suited for it. That said as the do have track I guess they could choose it to run at their home, should they so wish. Indeed it would be nice to think if not to run on the IMR, given the proximity to the Lezayre section of the trackbed that there could be a chance of it returning to its home metals as a small scale preservation line but that's pure speculation and wishful thinking on my part...

    If we're talking about the frames and pony wheel of 7 then it would also be nice to think it could be returned to the Island as the best chance of some sort of restoration is here even if just as a cosmetic museum artifact with life expired bits. Would anyone like to form some sort of group to try to achieve this? A suitable secure on island indoor storage site for it (and hopefully if further negotiations could be reached N42) and a pot of cash to facilitate restoration and purchase would be a good start.

    Re Derby well the frames have gone but there's still the pony truck and wheels and no doubt umpteen bits in storage or on use for other engines about, not sure if the spare drivers are it's (or ones swapped from it from another loco)...probably actually significantly more of Derby about than some UK based newbuild projects have from the various locos that they recreate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Care to organise a poll to see what percentage actually believe Taliesin is a "rebuild"?:)

    C'mon Allan, the Island's been out of bounds for most of us for yonks. You don't seriously expect no outrageous amounts of wild and utterly baseless speculation? This is NP. ;)
     
  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I admire your enthusiasm Allan but this is all pure WIBN.....however if you were to send Mr. Hendry a cheque for, say, half a million quid I'm sure that No7 and N42 could be 'restored' but, in the case of Tynwald, what would be the point? The frames and cylinders have lain outside for 70 years and would likely need replacement so all you would have is a replica. I have no problem with replicas but if you were going to spend 1/2 mill. why not do a MNR Sharpie? Better still IMO would be to spend the cash on Nos.5 & 9 or even the railcars . The only significant remaining parts of No.2 Derby were scrapped in Aug 1978 let it rest in peace. In No7's case rust in peace.
    The spare driving wheelsets were originally No.1's - the builders number is stamped on the axle end.
    Ray.
     
  13. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    In what way is it WIBN to cosmetically rebuild no7 as a museum exhibit using life expired bits begged borrowed or whatever from the IMR and somehow I doubt purchase of the frames and repatriation to the Island is going to cost much over 10 - 20grand, less if a compromise agreeable to the 3' gauge society can be reached to safeguard the future of 7?

    At the very least repainting and display either on the railway or perhaps at a location such as for example Ballaugh goods shed is a highly feasible option providing a more secure future.
    I actually had a constructive conversation face to face with Mr Hendry where he indicated if a long term secure future for 7 was provided he would consider working with a group of on Island individuals to achieve it's return.

    Let's not split hairs about what parts belong to which loco, the fact is that spare drivers and pony trucks exist because of the sacrifice or 2 & 7 no matter which locomotive they are on.

    Incidentally 2 and 7 didn't sit outside for 70 years, they were kept in the upholstery shop until the late 70's and 7 spent time indoors at Murrays Road bus garage more recently. So maybe 40 or so year but definitely not70 years outside...

    Oh and the return of 15 and 16 for many years was dismissed as WIBN so don't be so scathing and dismissive of what you see as WIBN.....
     
  14. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Suit yourself.
    Ray.
     
  15. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    Rather than deceiving people into thinking that they were looking at an original artifact, if there is so little remaining of No.7, then it would be more truthful to create a 'new' loco modeled on No.7 and label it as such. The same argument could probably be applied to other 'restoration' projects.
     
  16. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    The first photo below shows the remains of No2 Derby (withdrawn 1949 dismantled 1951) after being removed from the upholstery shop and shortly before scrapping in August 1978. The second shows the well cared for remains of No7 Tynwald (withdrawn 1939 dismantled 1945) taken in 2016. For the sake of historical accuracy No7 was never stored in the upholstery shop. For some years it was, admittedly, stored in the damp dark recesses of the old corrugated iron carriage shed before being 'displayed' at various outside locations by its new owners who purchased it in Feb.1978. No locos or rolling stock were ever stored in "Murrays Road bus garage" because no such place ever existed. There was a bus garage nearby in York Rd. (the former cable car depot) but that never housed locos or rolling stock except for Douglas Corporation horse trams. The former bus garage to which, I assume Allan refers, was in Homefield Road some distance away and was for some years used to store surplus rolling stock from the IMR & MER.
    Ray.
    08-78-13a IMR No2 Douglas 8.78.jpg IMR no7 Fengate Farm Weeting 13th Feb 2016.jpg
     
  17. Chrisw77

    Chrisw77 New Member

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    i remember reading how a robert hendry book and that he wanted the frames of number 2 but didn’t want to push his luck as he’d just got no 7 so left it, such a shame, the imr is so unique as so many of the original locos still exist, amazing that only one has gone
     
  18. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    It's WIBN in that it costs money which the railway doesn't have; it can never pay for itself because it won't earn any money; and in fact, it would probably prove to be a liability for the railway in the long run. Remember, even static exhibits still need care and maintenance to keep them looking presentable and arrest deterioration - especially if they are kept outside. Undercover space is always at a premium and there may well be other items which have a higher priority. Nos. 5 and 9, for example, are unlikely to run again in the forseeable future and, as yet, have no permanent display space. If such a space can be found, surely they should be given priority?

    Even if money is available, I suggest there are far more worthwhile projects that it could be spent on. To me, the most obvious choice would be to complete the restoration of the CDR railcars, which would give the railway something it doesn't currently have, and could potentially generate some income on gala days, photo charters etc. Then there are still several IMR coaches awaiting restoration, and several MER tramcars; and whilst I don't have detailed knowledge of their condition, I suspect they are probably better prospects than No. 7. We already have two Small Peacocks (1 and 3) on display in museums, with No. 9 potentially available as well...what do we really gain by resurrecting No. 7?

    Don't get me wrong, of course it would be nice to see a reborn No. 7 if money were genuinely no object, but unfortunately we live in a world of financial realities. It is not just a question of the initial costs of assembling this replica/rebuild, but the ongoing costs of maintaining it and the opportunity costs of devoting time and resources to such a project which would probably have been better spent on something else.

    Final thought: why do we, as enthusiasts get so worked up about filling every gap in locomotive preservation, whilst unique wooden-bodied coaches continue to rot in sidings at so many of our heritage lines? Particularly given that wooden coaches are far harder to replicate, as the woods used are in many cases no longer available. I'm not saying there isn't a place for new build/replica locos but on the whole, I suggest we should give priorty to preserving genuinely historic items. As a movement, we need to sort out our priorities!
     
  19. Autotank

    Autotank Member

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    The Isle of Mann is high on my list of places to visit. Am I right in thinking they run at more than 25mph on the steam railway and if so, what is the maximum permitted?
     
  20. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    As we do not come under the U.K.'s Light Railway Act we are not limited to 25mph by it. I'm not sure what the current limit is but I'll ask. There have been stories, in the past, of running at 40mph but it must have been pretty 'lively'. The current timings for a southbound train are 60 mins start to stop for the 15 1/2 mile run but this includes 5 compulsory stops and up to 4 request halts. Trains pass at Castletown 9 7/8 miles and 37 mins from Douglas but this includes the nearly 3 mile climb out of Douglas (with gradients up to 1:65) so they don't hang about. I was on a southbound train a few weeks ago that was nearly 5 mins 'up' at Castletown with 6 on.
    The 2022 season commences on 4th March with the 2 main special events Rush Hour on the Railways over Easter and The Heritage Transport Festival at the end of July. Info at www.rail.im
    Ray.
     
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