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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Member

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    Yep, I noticed that.
    Also the RMB mentioned upthread isn't listed so has that been brought/paid off already?
     
  2. keith6233

    keith6233 New Member

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    While everybody is looking at coaches the machine tools are well under valued.
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The workshop machinery caught my eye. Is there much there, the loss of which would kybosh any ability to perform normal running repairs for an operational line?
     
  4. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    The CNC lathe looks like a bargain for anyone making a lot of stays

    @30854 it depends on what is left! If the auction lots constitute most of the workshop machine tools then yes it could cause problems, as you wouldn't be able to machine an axlebox or make new brake pins etc. It really depends on what's left.
     
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Its only a starting point, albeit I would assume its the reserve.
     
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  6. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    I would suggest that most machine tools, fork lift trucks, tele-handlers and road vehicles are all easily replaceable. Serviceable Mark 1 coaches are not.

    Andy
     
  7. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    Indeed. The bidders will decide what they are worth. At auctions guide prices and actual selling prices can wildly differ.
     
  8. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    I think you're entirely correct there. You could probably replace all these machine tools with a couple of hours on the phone to some specialist machine dealers if you had the cash to pay for them. That stunt would be harder to pull with usable MK1 TSOs.

    I've a feeling that the opening bids on most of the older machine tools represent their scrap value, some may be worth more than that, others may not be (a lot of preserved railways seem to double up as museums of worn out antiquated machine tools, usually because said items were free)

    It's an interesting selection of assets, notable as much for what isn't listed as what is - e.g. there isn't a single piece of boiler makers tooling listed, despite their engineering business having undertaken quite a lot of boiler work prior to their demise.
     
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  9. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    At least one of the coaches already has a bid of £12k. Will be interesting to watch and see what prices they get up to.
     
  10. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    Will be interesting to see if any buyer is brave enough to accept Clause 7.2 of the T&C (assuming it is enforceable), which says that the Vendor (not defined but presumably the administrators of the plc) does not warrant that he has title and if he doesn't the Buyer still has to pay.
     
  11. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    Pretty standard in insolvency sales for title to be at risk, the Administrator takes no personal responsibility. Caveat Emptor and all that. Why would it not be enforceable? If you buy a car at auction, and it turns out to be stolen, AFAIK, your claim is against the seller, not the auctioneer
     
  12. MG 7305

    MG 7305 New Member

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    Is there a case for everyone to sit on their hands when it comes to the Mk Is? It is not as though there are that many people or organisations who have a use for them and to what extent is the heritage railway community a dog eat dog one?
     
  13. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    One way or another they need to be sold. If heritage railways decide not to bid they will just end up with the next highest bidder, which could well be the scrap man.

    No sign of people sitting on their hands though, with the Spa Valley Railway apparently offering over £30k for the RMB.
     
  14. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    As has been discussed before, how does that help the railway? (or the wider railway community)
    What do you think will happen if no money is raised on the sale of the coaches?
    - there is a charge to be paid off.
    - the administrator will need to settle that charge.
    - the less per unit the administrator receives, the less there is left for onward distribution
    - there are other creditors (including other heritage railway operators with loss suffered due to the works' failure to perform) who will be short-changed
    - there will be less left for the Ll railway trust to take over.
    - if banks are aware there is informal collusion between railways it will reduce the value they will attach to securitised assets for all railways and make loans more expensive, or even foreclose
     
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not to mention that word will get out to suppliers that preserved railways look after their own and leave creditors high and dry, reducing the general creditworthiness of the sector.
     
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  16. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Apart from the RMB which hasn’t been offered as part of the auction there are only two coaches which have a bid on. Hardly a mad rush so far...
     
  17. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    Viewings don’t take place until 9th and 10th May. So I wouldn’t expect many bids until people have had a chance to inspect the coaches, decide which ones they want and how much they are willing to pay.

    There is also probably an element of people not wanting to show their hand too early.

    The offer for the RMB gives some indication what people may be willing to pay for Mk1s, albeit with a premium attached for being a catering vehicle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  18. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    Is anyone one here administrator on the heritage coaches website? I bet that is being hammered right now - everyone will be trying to work out if they think the coaches are the plc or not.
    and/or are on the phone to the administrators trying to do a side-deal
     
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  19. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    I don't understand your comment. 7.2 says the buyer agrees that if it is stolen, he has no claim against the Seller.
     
  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you're referring to the survey, as has been stated many times before, the ownership category is somewhat unreliable. If I were concerned about ownership, I would feel no more assured looking at the survey than I would before.
     

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