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LMS Black 5 5025

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by FastFlyingSteam, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    I did go to Hellifield station last Tuesday and saw Leander which is currently in BR black and a bloke got talking to us and explained it was a black five so just goes to show even enthusiasts get confused. Was nice to see the cafe there doing well and a small museum opened.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Before I start, let me say that I have no opinion on Thompson, the person. I do have an opinion about the B1, though, especially when compared against other locos. Admittedly, that opinion is based on a solitary B1 (61264). Aesthetically, I like the B1 but, as a 1940's loco design I find it poor in terms of mod cons and more like a 1930's loco, such as an early Black 5 or an S15 with little in the way of grease lubrication It is a chore to oil up with lots of oil pots and coupled axleboxes where you have to lift the lids and pour oil into the reservoirs but, intriguingly, only the front four. The reverser screw is too coarse, meaning that it won't stay put unless you have the catch in. I've had it slip as I was adjusting the cut-off which resulted in it being ripped out of my hand (shades of 60532 but nothing like as bad.)
    I find the boiler is not the easiest one to make steam and I'm not alone in that. Perhaps its because it only has a front damper, which means you can't treat it like most other locos with most of the coal having to go to the front. The rat trap firehole door is not everyone's favourite, either. The injectors are nothing special and when allied to standard LNER clack boxes it doesn't improve their reliability. You have to keep a careful eye on them to make sure they are still feeding. Give me a GWR/BR standard injector any day. Even the sanders are poor; you can unblock them during your prep and you can guarantee that you'll have to do the same again, tomorrow.
    Whether 61264 is typical of a B1, I don't know but I find its performance is lacklustre. It seems to plod rather than go and is noticeably poor if the pressure is not up to the mark and I'm not talking about a long way off. It certainly doesn't compare with the other Class 4 & 5 locos I'm used to on the NYMR, which can easily handle the standard 7 coach sets.
    Simon has commented that 410 locos were built with little variation. I think there was much that could be improved and it is probably a negative point that there weren't any improvements such as improved lubrication and sanding, which wouldn't have been major. Away from my personal opinion, according to the LNER Forum, the boilers were problematic and there was a plan to replace them with BR standard ones that, admittedly, came to nothing.
     
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  3. Kylchap

    Kylchap Member

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    This reminds me of a trip behind a B1 in steam days, on the East Lincs line from Peterborough to Grimsby, most likely 1963. The DMU must have failed and was replaced at Peterborough by a B1 with a four coach rake. We set off North at a lively pace until the brakes came on just past Littleworth crossing. The train stayed there for about 2o minutes before proceeding. At Boston I got out and spoke to the driver. He said we had been going along nicely at about 60mph when the brakes came on due to a drop in boiler pressure, so he had to stop while the fireman raised pressure again. The driver said this was a common problem with B1s.
     
  4. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    ….meanwhile, up in Scotland, 5025 is still going to wow the crowds later this year (hopefully)!
     
  5. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    the quote on question came originally from a book by Alan Blencowe . i don't remember which one , but i think it related to a discussion on the Woodhead route , so maybe Nottingham Victoria area
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  6. 2392

    2392 Member

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    I've been thinking [I know that's not a good thing for me], but if we can have a BR black Jubilee [4]5690 Leander. Then how about a maroon Black 5 i.e. 5025. Just looking at the photos of 5025 in undercoat red. Would have no doubt been Red Lead in the old days.....
     
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  7. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Nope, definitely Harold Gasson. As I said, I'd read his books so knew the name, and his previous GWR sentiments. For any GWR man to admit that anything from another railway was better than a pure Swindon product was so unusual that I bought the magazine. His comments simply didn't fit with anything from his I'd read before, but there they were.

    I actually wrote to the 8F Society to tell them of this strange event!
     
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  8. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Maybe what he didn't mention was that a gun was put to his head and he was told he couldn't choose a GW machine...?
     
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  9. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Cracking idea. Then we could call it Maroon 5 and watch it draw in a whole new crowd of enthusiasts.
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not a charge I'd heard raised against the B1s before. At that date, could it perhaps have been more a symptom of maintenance regimes in the final rundown of Easter Region steam?
     
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  11. Foxontour

    Foxontour New Member

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    It's actually red oxide primer.
     
  12. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Either that or an inexperienced fireman? If it was supposed to be a DMU but ended up being a B1, it might have been a loco and crew cobbled together at short notice. Poor loco, young fireman not knowing exactly what he's doing (admittedly, at 1963 it's not like there would have been many new recruits...)
     
  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    I doubt it would, Maroon 5 are just bloody awful.
     
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  14. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    They're at least not awful enough to sell loads of records and for the lead guitarist to have his own signature model guitar with MusicMan...
     
  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    When it comes to 'superstar branded' instruments (or even drum kits), nothing new there.
     
  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Record sales do not necessarily equate with quality music. E.g. Agadoo.*
    *Other dross is available.
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'll see your 'Agadoo' and raise you a 'Chicken Song*'! ;)


    *"... and though you hate this song, you'll be humming it for weeks". You're welcome!
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Anyhow back to 5025…
     
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  19. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    To at least a certain extent quality of music is a subjective matter...
     
  20. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    It would be rather sad if the last designed classes of express steam locomotive were not the best, although Jarvis didn't have a clean sheet of paper.
     
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