LNWR King George V new build?

In a previous post some time ago I expressed a hope that someone would make an attempt at a new build of an extinct LNWR or Midland Rly class, specifically a George 5th or Precursor (as well as their tank engine variants given the shared parts) and a Johnson small-boilered 4-4-0 express engine or 0-4-4t in original condition, all of which constitute significant and tragic omissions from the presvervation ledger.

Over at the LNER forums it was mentioned that a certain Bruce Nixon (this Bruce Nixon http://www.brucenixon.com/index.html ?) is proposing to build a LNWR George V new build.

http://www.lner.info/forums/lnwr-new-build-t5328.html

Does anyone know the veracity of this, whether it is the same Bruce Nixon and any other pertinent information?

 

Whether a genuine attempt or not, it doesnt really matter. If there isnt enough publicity to work out the seriousness of the proposal, there certainly isnt enough to raise millions of pounds.

Chris

 

@Christopher125
I for one would contribute to it if the project proved to be a serious one and a new-build of this size would make perfect sense. Some of us out here are pre-grouping fans and the fact that I don't have a living memory of steam means I have no emotional attachment to it's twilight years. Besides, I think perhaps you're underestimating the appeal of Victorian/Edwardian steam to the general public. A new-build George 5th (a handsome engine class in my opinion) resplendent in fully-lined LNWR 'Blackberry Black' livery would generate a lot of interest and be a considerable draw at any preservation society.

The information posted on the LNER forums is scant but presumably if the backer is someone of note then this could have a chance. My post here was merely to see if there was any further information beyond an email address reputedly belonging to the individual behind it. I could of course email them directly (and may yet) but I just wanted to see if anyone else had heard any information whatsoever which would shed light on this snippet of information either to credit or discredit it.

 

I can see you altered your post while I was drafting my reply to which I was directly responding.

What you say makes perfect sense and I for one take the news of this proposal with a hearty dose of salt. However given this is a small post only made recently the details and publicity are yet to come? I guess well see and until then I'll continue with the course of salt.

 

I agree that Victorian/Edwardian new-build locos would make an interesting addition to the current crop of new-builds. This is an era that could do with more examples being seen in steam. The majority of current locos running at heritage railways will have many followers who could probably remember those types in service before they were withdrawn. But how about seeing more earlier LNWR, LBSCR, GNR, etc engines running?
Also, too many pre-1948 locos are losing their original identities and are now running with their BR identities.

 

Sorry about that, i thought i should phrase it better. Im still not convinced though - lots of people may like the idea of one, but the further you go back the more extinct classes there are to choose from, and the less well-known and documented they are especially in the railway press. To the younger generation its just another class of extinct loco they have never really seen or heard much about it.

Chris

 

The idea is a good one, but will need a good fundraising team to make it happen.
If people want to see a Victorian or Edwardian loco why not sponsor an overhaul for one of the G.N.R. atlantics, currently hidden away in a garden centre.

Bob

 

Chap named Dave Costello left a comment on one of my posts giving the same email address as on the LNER forum - from the wording, I'd infer Trafford Park on the forum is the same person. Thanks Dave, if you're reading - appreciated.

I sent an email but unfortunately it bounced back.

 

No problem Christopher. No apology needed! And to be frank you make a lot of sense of course. I would say that the age of those involved in the Claud Hamilton project suggest that young people, with no memory of working steam whatsoever may in fact be interested in pre-grouping steam. Moreover, the have that we have a LBSCR H2 Atlantic, a NER G5 and GER M15/H5 all with a good to reasonable chance of seeing the light of day perhaps suggests a greater interest in pre-grouping than you think. Also in addition to the recently announced GER Claud Hamilton build there's the MSL/GCR Class 2 four-coupled bogie express proposal that's beginning to get serious attention (I'm in contact with some of the members). Admittedly unlike those mentioned here, the George V's never really made it to Nationalisation (the last withdrawn in 1949 I believe) so that *may* affect it's viability. Then again, perhaps equally it enhanes it? To add I doubt it would cost a million for such a locomotive given the clear advantage of a pre-grouping engine such as this would be it's size and relative simplicity in comparison to say a Peppercorn A1 or Gresley P2. And LNWR engines, the compounds notwithstanding, were simple engines indeed. Something to consider

This all being said, I'm sceptical to the veracity of their proposal but I'd be immensely happy if it were a serious new-build contender. And I would reason that for many enthusiasts, the lack of information in comparison to the relative ubiquity of all the Collett GWR types, pannier tanks, Staniers and Bulleid express types, and BR Standards in existence would make such a locomotive more interesting in the same way people find the Dodo more interesting than the common pigeon. While I love all steam, a Black 5 or a GWR Collett class leaves me a little cold (apologies to those who understandable hold them in great affection and esteem) and a theoretical new build for a long-lost variant would seem to be less worthwhile in my books.

But that's just me and perhaps I'm alone in feeling this way.

@Richard66
My ideal list of pre-grouping engines if money were no object would be:
*A LNWR Precursor or George 5th (and their thank engine variants for good measure)
*A GCR Robinson 'Jersey Lilly' Altantic (The man designed some of the handsomest locomotives ever seen)
*A MR Johnson small-boilered 4 coupled bogie express and 0-4-4t (hundreds made yet none survived to preservation) in orginal as built condition in their glorious fully-lined crimson lake liveries
*A CR 903 class 6 coupled express engine 'Cardean' in Caley Blue.
*A NBR Reid Altantic.
*GSWR Manson 6 coupled express (an extremely handsome engine in my eyes)

 

@New Build Steam
I wonder if it is the same Bruce Dixon as on the website I listed given than one of the PDF articles on his website gives the waitrose email address (God I feel like a stalker). Perhaps try bruce@brucenixon.com unless you want me to do it?

@Thompson
Restoring to running order one of the GNR Altantics would be worthwhile but the advantage of the new-build is an engine which doesn't exist in preservation at all and an engine without all the inherent problems and frailties of being 100+ years old.

 

Hm - is there any indication he has anything to do with railways at all?? All we know is someone has been pointing people towards his email address. I'm a bit hesitant to pester the fella without a bit more information tbh, but don't let me stop you - can't do any harm I guess.

 

None really other than the names and that the email address posted by Old Trafford comes up in an old article written by this Mr Dixon. The link is tenuous to be honest and browsing this gentleman's website it does seem unlikely he'd be involved in a new build project to be honest. Still nothing ventured and all that. I'll word it carefully and send off a small inquiry. I will say that a lot of those interested in the sustainability movement are also interested in fostering craftmanship and local industry. A friend of mine is heavily involved in the permaculture, local, sustainable communities, stead growth movement and hand-builds bicycles. I can see some room for overlap there.

Incidentally I have to commend you on your website. Its a valuable recourse for keeping track of all the new-build projects and helps such projects get the word out. I have the page favourited and check it periodically.

 

I'm not a member of the LNER forums. I'm wondering if anyone would PM Old Trafford who originally posted the news for any further comment which might shed some light on this.

 

Question for new build steam. do you only use update from official websites? Cheers Gav

 

Very kind, thank you!

 

Not invariably, but I do try to prioritise stating things authoritatively - often therefore I like to have official confirmation. Though for many projects there are few other sources anyway!

An example of where I had to take a different approach was the Hengist EGM, where I tried to keep it factual using reports from here and elsewhere, while stating what the project had and hadn't said officially and trying to avoid getting into the detail, as much was clearly speculative.

I'd love to have the time to be more proactive and take a more journalistic approach, but sadly I haven't (would be fascinated to look into the issue of business models more thoroughly, for instance). So the site aims to collect and signpost to accurate info.

 

Ok its just i update the facebook page as our webmaster has so much other stuff on he rarely has time to update the official page. I am going to propose we do an engineering update each month like the 82045 group. as we have loads being ordered and were always telling people on our stands but we never put things on the website. Something im sure our members would appreciate more.

 

Sounds good - bonus points if you can put an RSS feed on there, which even the regularly updated projects mostly haven't done yet...:wink:

 

Oh now that would be good. it would be so easy for people to see when its updated with out all the manual checking

 

A small update to this thread. There's more information to come. I've spoken with Bruce Nixon and Paul Hibbard, and I can confirm that a very serious and considered proposal to built a LNWR George 5th class engine does indeed exist and that both men a members of the steering group. The project has the backing of the LNWR society. I'll post more soon.