If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Loco 76017

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by johnofwessex, Nov 15, 2022.

  1. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    1,693
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Life tip for you. Life is not black and white. It's full of many, many shades of grey. If you go in with an attitude of 'This is what I think, I'm going to state it as fact and refuse to listen to anybody with a different opinion', you will find many situations like this, where people challenge you on what you have stated as 'fact' when others with a view from a different angle can see another side or perspective. Don't shut yourself off from debate, but learn to engage with it in a healthy manner. Listen to other people's perspectives and gently present your own.

    Also, if you don't want people disagreeing with things you've said, not only will life be difficult, but a forum probably isn't the best place for you to spend your free time!
     
  2. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    211
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I know, just don't want to be digging deeper and deeper holes, that's all.
    Besides, this is all about 76017 anyway.

    I seem to recall on of my new DVD's, one of the three shot in Scotland, talking about the only STD based on the West Highland was a 4 Mogul weither it was 76010 or 76110, I really don't remember.

    So possible venture for it?
    That is, if West Coast Railways go that far.
     
  3. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    1,231
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is 76017 still on the Bluebell? There were rumours on here of a potential move over the weekend, but I think the entry on RTT then got removed.
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    27,044
    Likes Received:
    61,041
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A move earlier this month got cancelled due to a landslip; but I understand another move is now planned.

    Tom
     
  5. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,266
    Likes Received:
    6,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Of the loco or the land Tom? (from a very wet Swanage):)
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    27,044
    Likes Received:
    61,041
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The loco - I hope. But the land is very soggy …

    Tom
     
  7. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    7,264
    It was 76001 that was based at Fort William in the early '60s in the dying days of steam, ostensibly to replace the ageing K2s. While it was fine on the lighter trains to Mallaig it often doubleheaded on the heavier ones.

    76001 returned in the guise of 76079 in 2008 to participate with 45407 in the end of season photo charters that year. It was fine on 5 coaches to Mallaig and could possibly manage 6 but not the current normal 7 coach load. I gather that the front number plate carried in 2008 was the original off 76001. Here it is at Lochailort during a pause to let the car chasers get ahead on a run to Mallaig. mini_DSCF4449 copy.jpg

    Wharever plans the owners of 76017 have for the engine I would be very surprised if they featured the West Highland line in any shape or form

    Peter
     
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,266
    Likes Received:
    6,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Lovely "in service" look to that loco Peter.
     
  9. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    3,878
    Location:
    Powys
    Has to be said that 76079 was the perfect tool on the Cambrian trains when they were revived by West Coast. I enjoyed several trips behind it and the short sections between stations and tight timings, really warranted its 'Pocket Rocket' nickname - with many sprints into the mid 50's mph and cracking sound effects to go with. It was also light enough not to cause too many concerns with Barmouth Bridge. After its sale and move to the NYMR, the use of a Black 5 the following year took a lot of persuading with Network Rail and came down to how much water would be in the tender by the time the train reached Barmouth - to prove the loco and tender were within weight tolerances.
    Should we ever see steam on the Cambrian again (I am the eternal optimist on this one!), it will be interesting to see if the recent upgrade works on Barmouth bridge have eased these headaches - although I suspect it will be 44932 leading the return, or maybe 76017?! ;)
     
    green five likes this.
  10. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,505
    Likes Received:
    1,626
    Occupation:
    Safety, technical and vehicle trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    If its overall weight that is the issue, there have been a number of workings with class 37s recently- which are heavier than a black 5.

    The rail bearers have all been replaced I think from memory- I don't know if that has changed matters.

    I don't know if other structures on the line may have restrictions as there are a number of smaller timber structures too.

    Chris
     
  11. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,576
    Likes Received:
    8,623
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's not just weight that needs to be considered. Axle loading and length also plays a part. A Black 5 and tender is about 25 tons heavier than a class 37, but if the amount of coal and water carried is reduced, the axle loading is quite similar. A Black 5 is also marginally longer so the weight is spread out.

    A Std4 2-6-0 is shorter than a class 37 and about the same weight, and the maximum axle loading is about a ton lighter, but the spread of the weight is nowhere near as evenly distributed. The difference between the pony truck and the leading diving axle is 9 tons for example, and the tender axle loading can be a few tons lighter than the loco, depending on how much coal and water is being carried. A full loco and tender weighs 59t + 42t, an empty loco and tender is 55t + 20t. Obviously the levels will never get that low in service, but you'll still have a loco that weighs nearly 60 tons and a tender that weighs about half that.
     
    Paul42 and Martin Perry like this.
  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,550
    Likes Received:
    7,897
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And that’s before you even get started on hammer blow.
     
    Paul42 and 5944 like this.
  13. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    S Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No steam loco has been fitted with ETCS yet and the version used on the Cambrian is slightly different to that planned for the East Coast which I believe is being test fitted to Tornado so until this is sorted and approved it is all conjecture. There is then also the problem of pathing as TfW are using all available paths so a timetable re-write will be needed to allow steam to run on the Coast. In summary, steam on the Cambrian won't return anytime soon, certainly not before 76017's boiler ticket runs out. I'd love to be proved wrong though.
     
  14. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    4,368
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    44932 is being fitted. See post from J Shuttleworth on this thread https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/tornado.10750/page-318#post-2755971
     
    acorb likes this.
  15. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    S Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  16. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    1,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Alton, Hants
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If the Cambrian version of ETCS is sufficiently different to the version being installed on the main lines, would 76017 (or any other loco) qualify for 'first in class' fitting (i.e at Network Rail's expense)?
    Pat
     
  17. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    S Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This could/should have happened years ago when ERTMS was first introduced but I think it was just too difficult and too costly and was therefore not pursued. I'm not sure if enough has changed to make it viable now unfortunately.
     
  18. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,658
    Likes Received:
    8,215
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    My settee, mostly.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,496
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There's been a fair amount on both detail and chronology (unindexed ..... plus, it has to be said, a fair bit of invective) concerning this saga on Barrie Hughes' www.isengard.co.uk unofficial WHR(C) website. T'is alleged that, when first mooted, "certain assurances" were given, though now so long ago I doubt anyone involved it still in post, with quite a few of 'em likely long retired.

    AIUI, the main stumbling block was that the equipment needs to be mounted on the locomotive, with the tender not being counted a part thereof. If it's all that tightly specified, quite how the system copes with either MU or P-P operations is far from clear to me.
     
  20. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    237
    If you've followed what the A1 Trust are doing with 60163, that's clearly not the case. Why would it be? Does a loco ever run on the main line without its tender?
     

Share This Page