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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    Nigel T. Has been asked to attend, I can't tell you how excited he is and quite rightly so
     
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  2. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I'm quite sure that both sides of the argument are at fault to some degree, however I can't see how blame for demolishing the extension can be laid on the directors who weren't involved. You can't demolish something then say its someone else's fault because they didn't reply to an email
     
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  3. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    I draw your attention to @ Old Kent Bikers post highlighting the responsibilities towards health and safety. Given Chelfham is open to the public and the building in question was a danger to life due to the risk of collapse. Are you suggesting Volunteers should just continue to stand by in-spite of raising concern’s notwithstanding visitors can enter the site when it’s not maned (see Occupiers liability act 1984) Let’s not forget the building was dangerous and not just simply in the way.

    What kind of publicity would have been given had a small child visiting with Grandad had been killed

    @ghost you can not simply select certain facts to support your views lest, you could find your self adopting militant feminism as your choose ideology.


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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  4. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Where did I say or imply that volunteers should ignore H&S?
    If the building was in such a bad state then volunteers could easily have refused to man the site.

    As for your last statement...it doesn't deserve the courtesy of a response
     
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  5. ross

    ross Member

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    The team could have erected barriers/signs around the unstable structure to keep visitors safe whilst still preserving its existence/footprint for planning purposes. More than one way to skin a cat
     
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  6. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    What I am saying is both sides are at fault, but a total lack of communication from the management was a significant cause of the action,
     
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  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Normally I would be there too, but at the moment I am still avoiding long train journeys and relatively crowded venues wherever possible, so I shall be WFH (Watching From Home) :)
     
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  8. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    Just been reviewing some documents surrounding Chelfham and came across this in the application for the Lodge.

    [​IMG]

    It appears that there was no pre planning advice either sought or given, contrary to the information given to @Old Kent Biker.

    I guess the devil is in the detail.


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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  9. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    On the other, maybe it's simply the case that the form was completed incorrectly?
    It happens, I've seen them for applications locally here, and if you point it out to the planning committee they just shrug their corporate shoulders... :-(
     
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  10. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    I watched this project. Chelfham , returning it to its former life appearance .
    Often I asked on visiting what were the obstacles and what are your intentions.
    Since Murry Dodds lived there then Les , then it lay empty for years no one from the main project showed a blind bit of interest in progressing the site to any sort of use ..
    Then the diss engaged from Woody bay decided to adopt the station to make it of some attraction / use . Where they could go away from the stupidity and politics of Woody Bay .
    What you see now those dissenfranchised members have done , not only done but those keen members have self funded everything from their own industrious ideas . They continually asked for permissions to progress the project and all they got was brushed aside , ignored ,or cynical belittlement ..

    I have never read such pontification about a few simple facts ...
    Basically Chelfham is part of the L&B land assetts from 1998 and its being used as a deposit at the bank !! Thats bad enough , but the people who could have moved it forward have intentionally tried to diss enfranchise those active local members, because the people politics are in such a dire mess !!!
    Why do we come on here and write , because its a separate entity from the control freaked L&B .... It might not be what you want to read but there are people on here who like the facts and the truth and until those two are addressed there will be slow if any progress.

    Its a George Carlin in the flesh , ( its our club and your not in it ) I have one thing to say .. You pass people much faster on the way down and then you become a Who Person
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  11. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Well, thats certainly clarified the matter. Whatever you're on, can I have some?- I don't like Mondays.
     
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  12. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Personally I think BTR thats scraping the bottom of the barrel but each to their own .
    Im more into Steve Ellis.



    listen to the lyrics
     
  13. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I have been suspended twice from the WSR thread, and perhaps am probably the last person to be someone to comment on this thread, but I don't have any 'axe to grind' here, am not involved,
    other than someone who wishes the L&BR project to further flourish and succeed beyond what has so far been achieved.

    The restoration of Woody Bay. An operational railway, a replica and improved Baldwin loco, and replica carriages etc.

    A fantastic achievement and with much else having been achieved via planning applications and property acquisitions for the future.

    I cannot be the only person on here to consider the recent squabbling on here to detract from what has already been achieved and what may further be achieved.

    Lots of railway preservation movements have from time to time issues with personalities and their governance. Tom Rolt fell out with the Talyllyn, Allan Garraway ruffled quite a few on the Ffestiniog, as did Horace May on the Bluebell.
     
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  14. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    ," Everlasting love of the L&B." And as you say from the WSR in all these various Railways Bunchy is another , people have come and gone often with "Good Riddance" having not created what was expected at the conception , but some are so hard headed "Engrained " and the membership have to take extreme actions to trip the charge or should I say set the Catch Point for a runaway .
    Its rapidly approaching the time of the runaway coming off the road . The result of such historically was often a large pile of matchwood and some dead bodies ...remember what happens when you dont have westinghouse dual line because you thought you would be clever and use vac so much to know and so little taken notice of .. if you ignore the signs or the people eventually they catch up with you !!
     
  15. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    This thread is not now descending into animal cruelty as well as all the hoo-ha, is it???
     
  16. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Member

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    It has certainly descended into incoherence. :(
    Pat
     
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  17. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    This is definitely a plausible explanation

    Taken together with other issues such as the amendment made to the new Trustees (Mr Duffel) nomination, lack of transparency, refusal to engage with volunteers, treatment of assets paid for by the generous public including carriages, conduct at the AGM, the red line boundary C*** up and so on. Either a genuine error or not, a picture is emerging akin to Salvidor Dali’s melting clock notwithstanding it the same body of trustees marking error over and over.

    How many more errors do we allow before there is a loss of confidence? Notwithstanding these errors are not publicised, rather tucked away out of sight. Or at least shrugged off of sloping shoulders as in @RailWest experience.

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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  18. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    Those improvements leave a lot to be desired in fairness, like a money put on square wheels Live an learn I guess. The cost of repairs (covered by donations) due to said improvements will have to be calculated in the future.


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  19. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    Good point @ross,

    Had those at the top answered emails raising concerns this would have been an option unless it’s suggested volunteers should pay for signs, fencing etc.

    It’s not down to the volunteers to fund safety provisions - short of basic PPE - out of their own pockets, to say otherwise would be unreasonable. Volunteers do more than enough already notwithstanding particularly where the burden of public liability falls.


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  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    First off. Cards on the table. I have no connection with the L&B, the Trust, EA, ENPA, or NDDC or local residents' groupings. I just want to see a healthy L&B restored and for it to play it's important role in a vibrant economy..

    Looking at things from a purely systemic viewpoint, there are several distinct aspects at play. Please feel free to add to or challenge my sketch outline analysis, but here goes anyway:

    The currently working section of the L&B is a discrete heritage operation, supported by it's volunteer base and the Trust. Responsibility to external authorities here is for compliance with safe operation. This aspect seems to work well.

    Both EA and the L&B undertake acquisition of the line's historic 'right of way' (and disposal of surplus land) and associated infrastructure. Planning and funding considerations abound. This aspect, as far as it's primary purpose is concerned, seems to work well.

    There exists infrastructure beyond the physical limits of the operational line, which requires such effort as needed to secure it for the future or (as in the case of those station sites already returned to the fold) capable, with varying degrees of commitment to enhance and raise the profile of the line, in those locations which won't be seeing trains any time soon. This seems to be where things get sticky.

    In our world full of regulations, liabilities and finite resources, it seems that last paragraph is where friction exists. Here, I cast my mind back to the (admittedly smaller scale example of the) Ffestiniog's 'deviation' project. Although not including many of the issues faced by the L&B, there are commonalities. Early on, Mr Garraway recognised the many potential conflicts the project presented to both successful operation of the railway and to creation of the deviation, in terms of manpower and funding.

    In the FfR's case, the wise decision was taken to draw a distinct line between the requirements of each. The headline grabber at the time was an agreement for the deviationists and the operating railway to not 'poach' the volunteers both required. In practise, that worked well enough, but left many budgetary issues unanswered. Matters pertaining to planning remained with the FRCo.

    On Exmoor, the split of responsibilities there between L&B and EA seems clear enough, but there are obvious faultlines concerning matters whose remit is less clear. The way the FfR handled this was to appoint Gerard Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes to the board as a go-between, specifically responsible for communication issues between the railway and the deviationists. This gave the operating railway the ability to concentrate on keeping trains running and gave the deviationists the voice on the board the project so desperately needed. I don't know how much cross-pollination exists in the upper echelons of the various 'arms' involved in restoring the L&B, but would suggest any such appointee would need to be (a) carefully chosen and (b) sit on the top table of all of them.

    With a patently obvious amount of work needed to properly handle land and infrastructure as it returns to the railway (in one form or another!), it seems to me that 'longer term projects' (drainage, bridges, buildings) and maximising the potential of sometimes isolated locations needs as much emphasis as land (re)acquisition. Does that all sound like fair comment?

    I wish only well to all those striving to revive the iconic L&B. With so much needing doing, there are bound to be difficulties, distractions and at times, friction too. Though I doubt anyone might hazard a guess how long it will all take to come to fruition, it's going to be measured in years, if not decades. It strikes me that any current problems laid bare on these pages aren't going to be the last. So ..... here's my question to all involved in this mammoth undertaking. Do we want to see years of acrimonious exchanges between folk who, let's not forget, share a common goal, or stand back and look at a bigger picture which needs everyone working well towards that goal?
     

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