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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    A foundry I used earlier this year was charging £3 a kilo (no doubt increased since then) but you need to give them a pattern. Maybe that is the reason for the higher price?
     
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  2. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps, it still seems like a lot of money!
     
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  3. DcB

    DcB Member

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    I notice Andrew Dow was president of the trust, connected to the NRM, and from this thread successfully helped raise money for the Chelfham Viaduct refurb, what was the concept/project that caused him to leave the L&B trust?
     
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  4. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    Andrew was head of the NRM from 1992 to 1995. As I was told, a Museum with NRM exhibits on loan refused to accept the standard rules that applied to all organisations with NRM artifacts on loan, and Neil Cossons, head of the Science Museum at the time, backed the Museum against Andrew, so he resigned. Andrew was appointed President of the L & B Association in 1998 and the following year had been in discussion with Rail Property Ltd which owned Chelfham Viaduct for about 5 years 'laying the ground for the day when the Association could take ownership' of the viaduct and between Bridge 21. (which it also owned) and making sure that no other organisation like Sustrans beat the Association to it. (quote from Andrew's article in Magazine 60) The viaduct required repairs which were to be conducted by Carl Bro Ltd, and Andrew agreed that for a contribution a waterproof membrane would be inserted and the parapets removed in 1956 would be restored so it would be capable of taking trains in the future. A figure of £125,000 was put on this work, but I understood at the time that Andrew agreed a very modest £25,000. Going back in mid-70s I had mentioned to Andrew that Coach No 2, which had been in a garden at near Bow for 40 years since the closure, had suddenly started to rot at a frightening rate, and that it was clear that unless it was got under cover fairly quickly it would rapidly get past the point of no return. The only way we could think of where it would not be left outside was the NRM. Andrew set to with his contacts and the Director of the NRM, John Coiley, David Jenkinson and the two of us went to tea with the owner. Our best argument with the NRM was that the National Museum had no NG exhibits and here was the premier carriage from the premier UK NG railway in almost complete condition. It took til 1982 to arrange everything by which time much more rot had set in, but it went under cover to the 'Peter Allan building' (sic). then a store, to dry out. If it had not been for Andrew's efforts and influence we would almost certainly lost this priceless artifact of the railway. As reported in Steam Railway in 2001 when he left the Association his view was 'that the railway should be prepared to wait for up to another five years so that the funding can be found to rebuild the narrow gauge line in authentic Southern Railway style'. Andrew died in 2015. Whereas we may not agree with that view, in my view we have a lot be thankful to Andrew for, and allegations like the one just made about his ideas should be backed up with evidence if put on this forum.
     
  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    I have to say that I agree with Andrew Dow's vision, although what "Authentic Southern Railway style" is, is a very narrow tightrope to follow, and full of potential pitfalls, and inaccuracies.
     
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  6. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    Michael I was there and have always been so. I became a members from the beginning of the project and the L&B is in my blood so waiting an extra five plus years ( more like Ten I believe I was told) was not something a lot of members wanted to wait for, sorry if this goes against your view but having waited 20 years up to that point, belief in any scheme had to be credible and this one simple wasn't.

    What followed i.e. the setting up of the Trust and later the Community Interest Company only came about by members who had had enough of not getting anywhere fast. It was a dream which would not have flown in the realities of the day, there was no business plan or legal structure and certainly no understanding of have a charitable Trust at the heart of the project.

    When asked at the meeting (I take it you where there) we where mostly fobbed off with a lot of oh yes my mates will take take of this and that, You don't treat adults like idiots and think you can get away with it.

    It was and still is our railway, if we cock it up then so be it, but the guys who are running the show now do have some collective experience for running such projects of this size and I have supported them since they took over and with limited funds and other resources I think they have done a bloody good and proper job, since no one else has gave us any chance in hell in getting this far.

    I am sure there will be someone come along soon (just like buses)and tell me I am wrong, but the facts are there for all to see, one personal point for you is that the L&BR group have two first's which on this thread appears to be conveniently forgotten. 1) it is the first heritage railway to build a current state of the art steam loco which will see us as part of the future of steam technology. Secondly this locomotive 'LYN' was also the fastest build for any project so far to date.

    I am just glad that those who support this project now and have seen or lived through all this histrionics can't be asked to drag all the past up once again, beside what does it mean to today project nothing if I am honest, if you want a far better story dig up all the facts about Collection X looking to buy Blackmoor Gate in the late 60's early 70's, now that is worth looking at.
     
  7. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    Hi Mark, most people agreed in principle to the Southern Railway view, but it was the way it was going to be delivered that cause the problem see my notes about, the other thing is that we still have a a number of people who also wanted to see different period's of L&BR history coming back to life as well.

    The other thing we forget at our peril is that it is the public who help pay for all this to happen not the likes of you and me being keyboard warriors, if any of you really want to help the Trust write them a cheque for say £10,000 a piece I am sure they will welcome you with open arms :).
     
  8. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    It sounds like I have been involved as long as you, when a few of us used to meet with Bill Prior in a Lynmouth cafe of an evening, but with a 6-year gap 2012-18 when I was seriously ill and couldn't travel much outside the door let alone to North Devon. I didn't say what my view was. I mere said 'we may not agree . . . .' with Andrew's view The part of your message that I queried was the opinion that he 'didn't have any room for a voluntary membership or would have allowed it to have any input'. And then something about wealthy backers playing trains. I don't recall that, and like you I went to most AGMs in those days, but it is 20 years ago and my memory is nothing like what it was.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  9. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    Hi Michael, so if I sounded off at you but when it comes to the L&BR I am very passionate about it.

    I bet you can recall how some of those meetings went with the likes of Paul Gower, Keith Vingoe, some of the guys from Exmoor Associates used to heckle those on the stage from the back of the town hall, at the time that was the fun bit as it didn't appear to be getting anywhere.

    As for Bill it was he who got me interested in the Association in the first place while he was living in Surrey I think it was, and as for those bright day glow tee shirts he used to sell:).

    I think it was just after Andrew had left that Keith got the basic management team together we have now, I recall Doug Hill in there as well at one point, I should not forget to mention the old Lynbarn Railway which gave a few of the North Devon guys the opportunity to start to build a railway for the first time.
     
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  10. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    Oh I nearly forgot the Colin Pealling sage, but I don't want to write another book to join the collection :Nospamming:
     
  11. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Although nothing todo with the L&B people may be interested to know more about the resignation of Andrew Dow as head of the NRM. As I recall this came about from his attempt to recall 70013 Oliver Cromwell from Bressingham to York so that it could be restored for main line operation. Bressingham resisted this move got support from Neil Cossons as head of the Science Museum, so Andrew Dow had no option but to "resign". Of course the loco eventually left Bressingham nearly a decade later in 2004, by which time Neil Cossons himself had moved on. As we know South Ken. does not like the NRM being run be anyone who has too much of an affinity for railways. Steve Davies met a similar fate two decades later.

    Peter
     
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  12. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    Well, how much would the copper capping cost...?
     
  13. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    £0 (it doesn't have any)
     
  14. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    but it could...After all, the Manning Wardle's do, well, brass at least. While we're at it, why not do 'Lyn' too?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  15. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
  16. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    but it could... After all, the Manning Wardle's do (well, brass at least)! Why not do 'Lyn' as well; give the motive power a common design theme?
     
  17. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    The motive power already has a genuine common feature- 3- letter names of regional rivers. Why introduce something which is;
    A)- non authentic, and
    B)- will divert funds far more urgently needed elsewhere on the project ?
     
  18. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    Err, 'Sir George Newnes' ? Three letters, three words wha'ever!!
     
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  19. mgp

    mgp New Member

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    The River SGN is a minor tributary of the River LYN. The SGN rises in a part of deepest Exmoor where none but the most intrepid hiker would ever venture...
     
  20. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    That's disingenuous. You know what I mean!;)
     

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