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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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  2. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    :Woot: :Nailbiting: :Banhappy:
     
  3. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

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    Yes, but the loco and stock would be in colour, whilst the 1930s film would be black and white... progress? ( I'll get my hat...)
     
  4. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    well, historically correct-ISH. Four of the current historic carriages carry the crests which were present on the original 1898 livery but not replicated at the first repaint, to the colours now in use. Interestingly, Coach 17 - built after the "new" livery was introduced - never had the crests, and doesn't now.
     
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  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    That really is getting into hallucinogenic territory!
    Would certainly bring a new meaning to the simple phrase "took a trip on the L&B":)
     
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  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Too much LSD rather than lsd for your ticket? :)
     
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  7. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    What I would love to see is a might-have been from much earlier in history: what if the L&B had been bought by the LSWR before 1914? MWs in full Drummond green livery, coaches in brown and salmon pink...well, I think it would look good, even if no-one else does!:p
     
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  8. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Member

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    Salmon, not salmon pink., please. More like a pale milk chocolate, judging by the HMRS colour patch. There was a colour known in the C18th as 'Salmon Buff'.
    Hamilton Ellis, with an artist's eye, says that there was a tendency towards pink when weathered as the nearest it got to 'salmon'. (And for painting in oils, he recommended a yellow base, with burnt sienna and a spot of blackened vermilion.)
    back to the L&B
    Pat
     
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  9. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    i like the sound of that and why not do it,whilst i know the Southern railway did own the L&BR and it is part of its history i do find it a little ironic that they choose to restore and recreate the look of their stations in the style of the company that actually closed the line
     
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  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    On the other hand, what if the GW had pitched in around that time and extended the L&B to it's own Victoria Road terminus in Barnstaple? I suspect, rather than Lew, we might have seen a different, though not entirely unfamiliar type of 2-6-2T turn up around 1924!
     
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  11. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    it has been suggested that the original building colours were LSWR brown and cream
     
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  12. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    And you never know,had the GWR bought it as they did with the VOL,it might still be have been running in its entirety today
     
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  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That crossed my mind too. Certainly, even without any passenger traffic, their W&L offshoot seems to have survived, at least partly, on the financial case for recouping earlier outlay on the locos! The original L&B locos certainly seem to have been better than the D&M oddities at Aberystwyth, but given Swindon's well known standardising tendencies? Or perhaps something like the comprehensive rebuilding of the Cleobury, Mortimer & Ditton Priors MWs might've been more likely? Then again, we do know Swindon did rebuilds and Swindon did 'rebuilds'.

    Anyhoo, t'ain't what happened!
     
  14. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    A fair point, I guess, but had The Southern not taken over, and spent much on upgrades (including new goods stock and a loco), repairs and modernisations, would it have had to close even sooner?
     
  15. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Did the GWR actually ever have any interest in buying the L&B? If as I suspect not, I think it would of probably closed sooner as you say, as if it fell into their hands, it would of been reluctantly, meaning investment would be unlikely.
     
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  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    You are comparing a 12 mile line running from a seaside resort though that ran as a 'day trip' operation from almost the start to a 19 mile line running from a market town to the coast, I cant see the L&B working in the way the VofR did/does.

    The survival of the W&L & Corris under GWR ownership is fascinating though. I find it hard to see how either made any sense after WW1 let alone WW2
     
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  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    In the case of the Corris, the answer seems to have been down mainly to crucial (and practical) support from the forceful personality of the area's then MP, one Henry Haydn Jones.

    I find it impossible to agree on one fundamental. Had there been no tourist traffic in the equation, it seems unlikely the L&B would have been built. Comparing the twin villages with Switzerland doesn't strike me as a sales pitch for a purely local line. Certainly, in any historic image of the line it's abundantly clear just how important holidaymakers were to the original L&B, throughout it's all too brief existence

    At the same time, it shouldn't be forgotten the VoR only became the 'summer only' tourist line we know today in 1930 (roughly when passenger services on both the Corris and W&L gave up the ghost too), up to which time it too provided year round passenger and goods services.
     
  18. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    The GWR didn't want the Corris as a railway. An earlier suggestion of its acquisition was turned down as not at any price by a senior manager. What swung the deal was the network of bus routes the Corris was operating by 1930 in competition with Great Western road services in some parts of Mid Wales.
     
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  19. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    That, we will never know but we do know that the Southern railway did close it somewhat illegally and lifted the track immediately back to the about the 15 and a half mile mark with the original act stating that Woody Bay had to stay open to trains imperpetualy as I recall
     
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  20. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    A take-over by the L&SWR could well have happened in 1905. The L & B Debentures came up for renewal and a significant portion of the holders in financial terms wanted their money back in view of the poor financial performance in the first 7 years. The L & B had to ask the L&SWR to take some, and they took £20,000 of them, so that those who wanted out could be repaid. If the L&SWR had wanted to take over the Company at this juncture it could almost certainly have forced it to do so, or at least made an offer to the dividend-less shareholders that they wouldn't refuse. The LSW Directors must have judged the Great Western wouldn't be interested - they were only interested in filling their trains with the best portion of the considerable traffic to Ilfracombe. In 1921, with the release from Government control (and guarantee of net earnings at 1913 level) the L & B started to makes losses again, largely because of enhanced staff wages which were set at national rates in 1920, and the Railways Act of 1921 introducing 'the grouping' under Eric Geddes, Minister of Transport, decreed that light railways would not be included. Negotiations started for the take-over by the LSW (again at the request of the L & B Directors) and were ultimately agreed and put to L & B shareholders. An encouragement to the LSWR was probably that they still had their £20,000 investment. (renewed on the way) The grouping rearranged the railway map and, maybe the Great Western was considered to be a threat by the LSW, soon to be a part of the SR, on the territorial border between Minehead and Ilfracombe. The history books suggest that Sir Herbert Walker, the LSW GM, recommended the take-over, maybe to prevent the GW snapping it up on the border with the rival.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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