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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Query: Is the intention to remove the current structures to Blackmoor, keep them at Woody Bay (pending extention to Lynton), or dispose of them at the earliest opportunity?

    Thanks in advance. :)
     
  2. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    As well as the minimising of maintenance, covered storage of carriages is important for their long-term longevity, metal as well as wood parts. The original 16 carriages were all accommodated at night in 4 rows of 160ft long sheds at Pilton Bridge. It is my speculation that when the 34ft engine shed at Lynton was extended by 10 ft in about 1910 (not long enough for two engines) this was intended as use as a carriage shed when the Shapland & Petters coach No 17 was built, so that a coach could be stored there for an unexpected need to strengthen a south-bound train, but also maybe because there was no obvious way of storing under cover a 17th carriage at Pilton Bridge. Unfortunately this hypothesis is not evidenced (as far as I am aware) by photographs.
    Whether this has any validity, the fact that there were still 12ft sections of carriage dotted over the North Devon countryside in the mid-sixties, 30 years after closure, (and quite a bit longer), suggests they had been carefully looked after.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  3. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Good question! The Woody Bay shed is effectively a temporary agricultural building, set on concrete pads, and designed to be relatively easily removable. I don't recall any mention of plans to move it to Blackmoor. I suspect it will remain at Woody Bay, perhaps for general storage, until work for Phase IIb (Woody Bay to Lynton) gets underway.
     
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  4. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    It's difficult to know for certain about the future of the current shed at WB especially as, if anyone has yet made any formal decision, it certainly does not seem to have been promulgated, but...
    1. AFAIK there is only temporary planning permission for it, so no doubt the ENPA would like it gone sooner rather than later once Phase 2A is operational.
    2. Current design work for Phase 2A signalling has identified the need to 'sort out'/simplify the arrangements at the Lynton end for various reasons, so the sooner thereafter that the shed is removed the better.
    3. No doubt an alternative use could be found for it 'somewhere', it seems too valuable a resource to discard.

    The above are my personal views only, I stand to be corrected by anyone who is better informed...:)
     
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  5. Thomas Woods

    Thomas Woods New Member

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    I would be very very surprised if the shed at Woody Bay was moved, it seems sensible to keep it in place until construction of 2b commenced. You can never have enough sheds.
     
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  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    ...but you need them in the right place :)

    From Phase 2A onwards all maintenance and servicing will move to the new depot at Blackmoor. Train services will start/finish at Blackmoor and (until Phase 2B is operational) WB will become in effect a posh version of Killington Lane - Down trains will simply arrive, run around and depart. Apart perhaps from the occasional need for water and/or coal at WB on an emergency basis, no other operational facilities will be required there. Shed Road 1 will become in effect simply a dead-end spur for engines running-run their trains.
     
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  7. sitimela43

    sitimela43 New Member

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    The planning consent states that if the land and premises cease to be occupied by the L&BR, the materials and equipment brought onto the land, and premises used, are to be removed. Hardly temporary.
     
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  8. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    this is one of my biggest gripes,we are always being told how much these carriages cost to build (paid for by members and supporters donations i must add) yet they sit outside in the lovely damp north devon weather ,i sometimes wonder if people from other parts of the country realise how wet it realy is down here,im sure in the last 2 years between the october and march there was hardly 24 hours that didn't have some sort of rain, i know I've said it before but i have a few pint glasses from the spring 2013 gala celebrating the return of coaches 7 and 17 ,thats nearly 9 years ago now and still nothing done about getting the now 5 carriages undercover even if it were an agricultural polytunnel style structure with a green cover at the back of the shed ,it really does get my goat
     
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  9. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Meanwhile, just along the coast, the WSR has been going for 45 years and still no carriage shed (yet).

    Sadly it's a common problem with many heritage railway retoration activities, it takes so long with so much time, effort and fund-raising that by the time 'the job is finished' everyone just heaves a big sigh of relief and moves on to another task.
     
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  10. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    I agree in principle, but from experience, polytunnels bring their own problems. Some years back, the Bluebell's C&W was using one at Horsted Keynes, and the huge fluctuations in temperature and humidity caused much warping and splitting of timbers. The vehicle incarcerated was eventually moved into the more stable environment of the carriage shed. I believe the all-over carriage covers caused similar issues at WB, at least that's what I was told by the duty loco crew, the last time I visited. Beyond removing the carriages by road, and putting them into storage out of season (at God knows what cost per year), I don't know what the answer could be in the short term.
     
  11. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Several years ago, the L&B did purchase customised covers for the carriages (when there were only 4, IIRC) but as with the Bluebell, it turned out these actually had a similarly deleterious effect.
     
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  12. Thomas Woods

    Thomas Woods New Member

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    Who's ever actually said that all servicing/maintenance will take place at Blackmoor? I don't see the point in getting rid of the shed at Woody Bay until it is actually necessary, either through planning restrictions or the sudden presence of phase 2b.
     
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  13. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Those are the same covers I refer to, Martyn.
     
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  14. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    That is the whole purpose of the proposed Depot there. Blackmoor will become the 'operational centre' of the L&BR and house all the key functions such as the Duty Controller etc. There will be no operational need to have duplicate facilities, with the additional overheads of staffing etc.

    By virtues of its recent history, the current railway is "WB-centric'. In future (at least until Phase 3 is complete), it will be 'Blackmoor-centric'. Under the current Phase 1 the train services are essentially out-and-back shuttles from WB to KL and return. For Phase 2A you need to turn that on its head, as it were, and visualise out-and-back services from Blackmoor to WB and return.
     
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  15. Thomas Woods

    Thomas Woods New Member

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    Yes but operations and servicing/maintenance are different things. Yes it wouldn't make sense to stable engines at Woody Bay but I think it would make perfect sense to use it for other things, like maybe a carriage and wagon maintenance shed or pway base, neither of which are accounted for in the current plan.
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I suspect much of the answer will lie deep in the detail of the planning conditions. I note from your profile you're comparatively local to the L&B and therefore likely to be much more familiar with the area than me, but keep in mind Blackmoor to Lynton isn't the long term ambition.

    Additionally, there's a stated desire to see the line remove a meaningful amount of Lynton/Lynmouth tourist traffic from Exmoor's roads*. On that second point, I confess to a certain scepticism, as we've seen such noble aims come to naught in several places and AFAIK Norden (Swanage) is the only example which seems even moderately successful.

    * if, as we all hope, substantial numbers do patronise the L&B to visit the twin villages, the question of the capacity of the historic Cliff Lift becomes important. With winter maintenance schedules, peak season reliability seems not to be an issue, but although kept in fine fettle, the fact remains that it started operations before the original L&B opened ....
     
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  17. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    This really is a problem. Our lovely and lovingly rebuilt coaches do need protection from the north Devon weather. Some updates on realistic timelines for a carriage shed at Blackmoor would be a good start. However I note that the Rother Valley Railway TWO Inquiry will not produce a result for at least nine months from its conclusion, which leads to what is perhaps the starting point here, i.e. when will the TWOA inquiry process be started?? In all likelihood the rebuilt coaches will therefore not receive adequate undercover storage for about four years as a minimum... Perhaps a ventilated poly-tunnel is not such a bad idea then?
     
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  18. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Whilst you make a good point there, IMHO the shed at WB would still need to be moved from its current location anyway in order to facilitate suitable operations for Phase 2A onwards at the Lynton end of the station. This is all part of ongoing discussions within the design work for Phase 2A which may take some time to crystalise into a definitive plan.
     
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  19. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    The plans for the Blackmoor workshops/sheds show; a carriage workshop, a 'spray bay', a carriage shed, a locomotive workshop area, locomotive stabling area and a 'loco works road' (I assume this is for additional loco stabling/running maintenance). So most (if not all) functions of the WB shed will be superseded by the buildings at Blackmoor
     
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  20. Thomas Woods

    Thomas Woods New Member

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    Yes but the shed at WB doesn't entirely serve the railways current requirements, ie nothing from the pway dept is stored in the shed, so where will it go at Blackmoor. Also got to remember that there will be an awful lot more going on once the extension opens, more pway vehicles, diesels, steam engines needing overhaul, carriages needing serious work etc. etc.
     
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