MAinland European Steam Loco numbering

Can anyone give a thumb-nail run down of loco numbering in European countries....is there a system to it or does each country have their own system?

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

Most countries have their own systems although with the current cross-border operations there may now be some commonality. For example the DB Class 185 is a DB design with variants supplied to many different systems hence the new 91 series codes found on loco bodysides and the EU / ES front numbers found on the same locos; add the complication of all-over advertising and finding loco numbers becomes horribly difficult.

The German notation has a 3 character Class number but the first digit - traction type [ viz 0=steam loco; 1=electric loco; 2=diesel loco; 3=small shunters ( kleinloks ); 4=EMU trainsetsp, 5=battery power cars; 6=DMU trainsets; 7=cili enginereers plant; 8=batttery ( non-powered ) trailers.

This is reflected in a similar way by BR whose Class nos try to identify power rages / traction type thus 0-13 shunters; 14-20 Type 1 650 - 1000 hp; 21 - 30 Type 2 1000-1500 hp; 31 - 39 Type 3 1500 - 1999 hp; 40 - 46 Type 4 2000-2500 hp; 47 - 53 Super Type 4 2750 - 2999 hp; 55 - 67 Type 5 3000 + hp; 70 - 79 dc electric locos; 80 - 91 ac electric locos; 92 multi-voltage locos.

100 = dmu ( underfloor engine ); 200 - 299 DMU ( in unit engine ); 300 - 399 ac overhead EMU; 400 - 499 SR 3rd rail EMU; 500 - 508 non-SR EMU

Not sure about other countries but this may start fuurther info from other countries.

 

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Now who can explain the pre-TOPS numbering system... :-$

 

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Good luck with this one #-o

http://www.railfaneurope.net/misc/czechnum.htm

 

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This website might help:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_identi ... tive_stock


I might surprise you but it applies in the UK also.

90 70 4500 21 0 GWR could in theory be 5521's number (I stand to be corrected)

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

To attempt pedantry I would think it would be 90 70 4500 121-9 GWR or possibly 90 70 4575 046-0 GWR (might be 1 digit out on that one!). Cue for a skilled man with photoshop to fake up a really long cabside plate

 

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Maybe Is hould have specified STEAM, but i did put it in the Steam Traction section...

 

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If confining this to steam days then the answer has to be that each European railway system had their own way of numbering that made them incompatible with others.

Examples:- France - by wheel arrangement (e.g. 2C1 = 4-6-2), Germany - classes spread from 01 (4-6-2) to 99 (narrow gauge) and with sub-divisions, Poland - a combination of wheel arrangement and year of first building, Czechoslovakia - combination of number of coupled axles and axle load.

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

Mever mind Europe - howzabout the British companies ?

the GWR which based its 4 character number on the 2nd digit ( e.h 1000 / 4000 / 5000 / 6000 / 7000 for 4-6-0 Express Passenger ) thus 1 for Larger Prairies, 2 for Heavy freight 2-8-2T, 3 for 2-6-0 mixed traffic, 4 for passenger 0-6-0PT, 5 for small prarires, 6 for South Wales designs ( 0-6-2 ), 7 for passenger 0-6-0PT, 8 for heavy goods 2-8-0 / lightweight 4-6-0 passenger, 9 for mixed traffic 4-6-0 and 0 for express passenger 4-6-0.

The SR filling in gaps where they arose until SR days when they tried to group classes together until Bulleid adopted continental notation for his Classes C001 - 040 for his Q1 then 2C1for his 4-6-2 ( 2 bogie axles, C = 3 Driving Axles, 1 rear bogie ) until BR adopted 33 - onwards for fleet numbering.

Midland batch numbers but then look at the Stanier 5s =- began at 5000 then when 5499 reached, batches went backwards from 49999 leaving 4658 - 4687 as the last 30 to be ordered. IIRC

LNER adopted a letter code for its classes with A = 4-6-2, B = 4-6-0 etc. right through to Z

BR adopted 1000 - 2999 for modern traction with 10000 - 19999 for diesel locomotives, 20000 - 24999 for 3rd rail electric locos, 25000 - 29000 for overhead dc locomotives.

BR Standrard used the block numbers for new designs 70000 - 0999 for 4-6-2 7MT, 71000 - 71999 = 8P 4-6-2, 73000 - 73999 5MT 4-6-0, 75000 - 75999 for 4MT 4-6-0, 76000 - 76999 for 4MT 2-6-0, 77000 - 77999 for 3MT 2-6-0, 78000 - 78999 for 2MT 2-6-0 thus 70000 - 79999 for tender designs. The tank designs werre 80000 - 89999 covering 80000 - 80999 for 4MT 2-6-4T, 82000 - 82999 for 3MT 2-6-2T and 84000 - 84999 for 2MT 2-6-2T

The 9Fs were a later design geared to Riddles respect for the German 2-10-0s as they were originally intended to be 2-8-2s following the experience of the LNER P series 2-8-2 designs but Riddles insisted on 2-10-0 and the number series of 90000 - 99999 for heavy freight designs covered 90000 - 90732 for 8F 2-8-0s, 90750 - 90774 for 8F 2-10-0s and 92000 - 92250 for the standard 9F 2-10-0

So there was a British logic - of sorts - and even the German designs has a group block for their designs thus 01 - 19 for their 4-6-2 designs but these were also blocked to take into account many smaller companies that were absorbed into the DR during the early 20th century. This also reflects the LMS which blocked its group of locomotives with 6000 - 7999 covering LNWR locomotives, 10000 - 12999 for L&YR locos, 13000 - 13999 for Furness Rly until scapped and used for the Hughes Fowler 2-6-0 ( Crabs ) 14000 - 17999 for Caledonian Railway designs and 20000 upwards for elderly locomotives with a short term life but not immediate threat of replacement / withdrawal.

What was that question about logic ??

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

some of that info is not too accurate fred....

take the GWR: that schematic only works for later designs and goes to pot for even later ones....

try fitting in 16xx,44xx,36xx and 46xx,48xx(or 14xx for that matter)33xx and 34xx bulldogs, 15xx 0-6-0pt,
68xx, 78xx, 90xx..... does reallly work at any stage as a system

Southern Q1s were C1 to C40 werent they ? not C001 to C040

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

I think its perhaps seeking to put more order in the GWR numbering scheme than really existed... Also in the x0xx series were pannier tanks in 20xx and ROD 280s in 30xx...
I think I'm right in saying that the first of the Churchward classes to go past 100 locomotives were the 43s, and as 44xx and 45xx were already booked they probably figured that 5300 etc wasn't too illogical and simpler than a renumbering exercise (which they'd already had not so many years before, and the pain was probably still being felt). Collett, of course, tended to follow Churchward's example wherever possible, so its unsuprising he followed that example...

 

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I wouldn't have thought you'd have fallen for the exception Fred!

 

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I didn't - but then there is actually no exception in one way.

When the Class 30s were re-engined they used the Class 37 12CVST engine rated at 1750 but there was insufficient room for the charger thus could only generate 1470 hp from the 12CST engine that was bought for the Class 30 re-engining project.

Thus one argument could be that the Class 31 engine is a Type 3 hence the choice of 31 as a Class designation to differentiate from the Class 30 with the Mirrlees engine.

Unfortunately a more pedantic answer is that there was no spare 2x series numbers free and 31 was the nearest available class number - hence its choice.

One has to reember that English logic decrees that there must be an exception to every rule - and the Class 31 provides it !

 

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doesnt stop it being off-topic though

 

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... but then that's another example of an exception to the rule re logic in support of the title of this thread; although dedicated to steam the same logic is used to classify modern traction ( a misnomer in itself )

Modern traction actually dates back to the 19th century when Siemens produced its first electric locomotive so I'll give you 2 points to ponder

a ) There was a greater mileage of electrified railways in 1900 than there were steam locomotives fitted with superheat; superheat I believe was first introduced by the L&YR in 1908.

b ) If the 1990 restoration of 71000 was accepted as a new locomotive is steam traction still to be considered as old traction when the last diesel locomotive built by BR was 58050 in February 1987 and the last Class 60 produced by private industry was 60100 in December 1992.

Now that really is off-topic but - hey - the byeways of knowledge are more interesting than sticking to the main road of being on topic.

Enjoy the journey !

 

Re: this may be too big a subject

Quite right Martin but I was trying to avoid that as 60163 has been given more than publicity recently - and since it was conceived in the 1990s then the elongated production schedule simply brought timescales back to the conception stage of the 1990s ( to parallel71000 ) rather than its protracted birth during 2008.

 

European Mainland Steam loco numbering

but you miss the point that this thread is in Steam Traction and asked about the numbering of European Locos. Now I know GB is in Europe (reluctantly it seems) and I should have made it clearer, but it remains you have TWICE hijacked this thread.

Now, can anyone elaborate on MAINLAND European numbering systems?...The Czech one sounds particularly interesting

 

Overheard this recently from a little boy to his father..

if 60100 was the last british engine to be built why was the next one numbered 60163.