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P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. MrDibbs

    MrDibbs New Member

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    As indeed they will be, the first coach Mk1 TSO 4290 has been so fitted. If I remember rightly there are another 12 to go.
     
  2. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    CH 19, 242A1, Johnme101 and 4 others like this.
  3. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting this Richard! Much appreciated

    (BTW I really dig your signature: (Yorkshire. Where Men are Men and sheep are worried...):Joyful::)

    Knut
     
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  4. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    Pretty amazing to read that they plan on using CFD to model the steam flow "from the regulator to the blast pipe", to optimize it.

    I was also amused to see "If a smoke lifting problem is identified ... some relatively unobtrusive aerodynamic fences or strakes could be applied to solve the problem" - it sounds like a modern F1 car! :)

    Noel
     
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  5. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Aeronautical Engineer at the Helm so not a surprise really...
     
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  6. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    When you think about it, gasflow is everything in terms of power generation. It's also usually poorly-understood until very recently, so is a fruitful place to find some cheeky extra performance. All thermal engines move energy around in gasses.

    IMO, it's no coincidence that Ross Brawn managed that season with Jenson Button and no factory support on the back of a better diffuser than everyone else.
     
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  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Please don’t bring Formula One into this! :Gagmewithaspoon:
     
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  8. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    As a sport I find it dull as, as competitive engineering/full-contact governance-wrangling, it's quite interesting...
     
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  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Fair point, but until 2007’s on the grid at Monaco can we just leave it in the other thread that’s supposed to cheer us up? Thanks :)
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Would be interesting seeing it go round Loews hairpin ...

    Tom
     
  11. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    That might have been why they were looking for a turntable :D
     
  12. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin New Member

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    With that wheelbase it would struggle with the chicane at pit lane exit!

    But dragging us back into reality - that is an impressive piece of engineering design for fabricating the cylinder block assembly. It will be interesting to see the assembly sequence and number of stress relieving treatments required to ensure design tolerances are met.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
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  13. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic to see the use of CFD! This will help no end with power generation and also optimising valve timing and profiles.

    Have we covered this already, but, surely the final machining of bores etc is going to happen post-post weld heat treat?

    this isn’t going to be a fabrication of finish machine components being heat treated?

    Are we still talking about one final PWHT or are there going to be interim fabrications and heat treatments?

    Given it’s all bordering on thin wall (engineering definition) fabrication, I presume it’s going to be a case of leave the bores 50thou(?) oversize and then machine those (as well as all holes) once the whole fabrication has been heat treated?

    There is a lot of heat going in to this with the volume of weld, so distortion is always a threat.

    Or have I misread the part about the assembly sequence? Is the intent to reduce or eliminate distortion entirely through the sequence of assembly? Is the use of a cradle as a jigging fixture in the mix? Tack within cradle-weld all joints-remove from cradle-bake?

    That to me anyway is ambitious. Not impossible, but if we are talking about reducing the risk of distortion creating non conformance to DWG to an absolute minimum, leaving material on until a final machine as a competed and fully baked assembly would be the way I would go given my current level of understanding.

    Sure, the final machine operations will be a task and a half as one lump, but that would be the most dimensionally conformant cylinder block.


    Perhaps I’m missing something, happy to be corrected.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
  14. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    As I understand it Honda spent a small fortune developing the car the preceding season and then pulled out, and Ross Brawn took it over.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    IMHO it's very brave of the A1 team to contemplate a fabricated cylinder of this size. The only one I know of in recent times was one produced by the NYMR as a replacement for the cracked one on 76079 and that was a single cylinder, not a monobloc replacement. This turned out to be an expensive failure as it warped so much that even the machining tolerance was insufficient. In the end a new casting was provided. I sincerely hope that the P2 one is more successful.

    It will indeed be interesting to see what CFD throws up.
     
  16. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Go on, the whole project is brave, but that’s why we love it!

    Was said fabrication for 76079 post weld heat treated?

    As we know castings also have residual stresses which is often, in combination with other factors, why they end up cracking.

    Say the P2 group were casting 3 part cylinder or a monoblock, I would still query if a heat treatment was included to remove residual stresses that arise from uneven cooling of the casting.

    I have every confidence that this fabrication can be successful, and as successful as a casting. The fine details of the fabrication are what are ultimately going to make it so.

    Am I right in thinking the cylinder block will also get a proof-hydro test pre assembly in to the frames?
     
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  17. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Interested to know whether this new approach to cylinder construction will need/ use' liners' ...
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I guessing but I think it will be a necessity. Steel isn't exactly the best material for a cylinder that will use steam as the operating fluid.
     
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  19. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    ....resulting in the exhaust appearing to “leak” from the chimney encouraging it to stick to the boiler top,......
    A NACA cowling at the smokebox front instead of elephant ears will prevent that.
    Kind regards
     
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  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Whats the current liner material of choice... SG Iron ?
     

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