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Peak Rail Annual Report and Action Group

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by huochemi, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    Indeed; I wonder if such calculations have already been carried out by the quarry companies, allbeit in approximate terms.
     
  2. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    One aspect no-one has mentioned is that there is probably a meaningful passenger flow Buxton > Derby > London. I live in Buxton - virtually no-one goes Buxton > Stockport> London, we all just drive to Macclesfield, as it knocks about an hour and a half off the journey for a 20 minute drive. I wonder if that has featured in any of the calculations for projected passenger income (as it's a flow that's probably really hard to identify from the current figures).
     
  3. FearOfManchester

    FearOfManchester Member

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    Very true, and whiteelephantspeed2 won't change that situation for people living in the Peak District, you'd still have to go to Macclesfield, man airport or Piccadilly for a London service.
     
  4. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    I doubt it'd save the millions and millions they'd expect it to, especially with such an enormous capital cost to begin with. But they're probably looking to go down a 16-ish-mile Peak line, then the remainder down to Ambergate to join the Midland Main Line there. At present don't they have to take the Hope Valley line to Sheffield before going south?

    Problem almost instantly becomes capacity the second you reach Matlock, the Ambergate-Matlock line has been ruthlessly rationalised to a single track operated by a token system as a single, eight-ish mile block and runs hourly train services from dawn till midnight from Nottingham/Derby to Matlock Monday to Friday.

    So they'll only save some route mileage before hitting the exact damn problem they have going along the routes they do now.

    You'd have to redouble the track throughout that whole line as well. If the 16 miles are going to take £80m bare minimum, then you're actually looking at a total route improvement/restoration of roughly 24 miles instead. A whole new signalling system would have to be put in throughout the Ambergate-Matlock section due to the present token system requiring passenger trains to stop and for the driver to collect the token.

    It makes far more sense to stack some trains up in new marshalling yards, and run them more at night when there's no passenger trains running.
     
  5. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    I susspose you could relay what youd call a dynamic loop is it, break up the long single section. From matlock to ambergate are the brigdes up to it been long time since they seen alot of heavy traffic. Its who stumps thr money and whos done the sums and do they make it worth it in savings. But as jaydee put it probs be better to stack them for night running.
    Even if you added more trains to cover the costs got to take in to account additional wear and maintenance expense.
    Its a saga thats needs to come to a head and bring some change and new ambition and realism.
     
  6. westernrenown

    westernrenown New Member

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    All of which could easily be resolved with additional upgrading to the Hope Valley. Stone is not a time- sensitive commodity
     
  7. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Purely as a WIBN, it should be easy to organize steam hauled stone trains for special occasions. Double headed 9F's, or whatever floats your boat.
     
  8. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    Would be a WIBN. Did it at merehead didnt they
    How much more can be added to hope valley. E.g additional loops and signal sections
     
  9. westernrenown

    westernrenown New Member

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    The forthcoming upgrade is adding an UGL at Bamford and redoubling Dore and also altering the Dore south curve so it can hold longer freights. The route still has semaphore signalling with long block sections and there are places where further loops could be added, newts and nimbys permitting
     
  10. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

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    So fair bit of scope if the need arises to add more in capacity. On top of whats already being done. A resignal enhance bit more.
     
  11. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Ah, but if you start making arguments like that (and, as with everything here, this is hugely hypothetical) - in order to build the line to standards for passenger operation, not just freight, would require more infrastructure and the track rated for noticeably higher speeds than 25mph. Then, assuming this all goes ahead and the line opens for passenger and freight, would there be paths left for Peak Rail? Or would this scheme fully realised with passenger services actually be the final nail in the Peak Rail coffin?
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't think easy is the right word. Small matter of brakes to sort out.
     
  13. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Using S160s would clear that hurdle
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Loose coupled? :) :)
     
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  15. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    If it operated by the same timetable as the Derwent Valley line does now?

    Yes.

    Network trains would be every hour, with a 50mph line being likely, which isn't something Peak Rail seems capable of, even with stored locomotives currently there. (Mostly GWR locos owned by Waterman).

    You could consider something operating like The Jacobite, which'd open up some interesting potential options of running from Derby through to Buxton, or just from Matlock to Buxton, 32-ish miles round trip, plenty of space on Sundays when the trains drop to two-hourly services. Could work, but would require a TOC to run said services.

    Another interesting potential W.I.B.N is the Derwent Line, Network Rail seems to be in no rush, or no need, to double track it, perhaps a bit of jiggery pokery and another eight miles of track, complete with semi-abandoned platforms needing a bit of refurb could work?

    I said Matlock Bath elsewhere, but sadly there seems to be no real place to put in a run-round there or at any other station along the line, but there is a nice space at Ambergate, where part of the triangle is obviously no longer there.
     
  16. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    The word is of a long loop going in at Cromford.

    Dave
     
  17. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Whilst i would normally be very happy at news of any line reopening , the cost and magnitude of this scheme together with the timing in the face of the action group does make me view this with a degree of cynicism . I would really like to be proved wrong especially when I see all the efforts Dominic puts in on the S&T front to try and take the line forward

    quick observation also is what happens with the cycle path if the line were reinstated . 25mph running probably ok , 50mph probably not

    My further concern is over saturation of the heritage market in the area . GCR is already dominant on the South East corner of the area and once joined up will offer a compelling experience . Butterley, Wirksworth, Crich, are all competing for the heritage ££ alongside Peak Rail
     
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  18. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    The main "barrier" to building along the line at present is that the trail is there, however current plans are the Avon Valley/Bure valley style fencing and suchlike. I suspect if the quarries went for a fullblown reopening, the trail will likely go altogether, something I doubt the Peak District National Park would be particularly happy about.

    In terms of saturation, in that list there's really only one winner in the immediate region, the EVR. Mostly because Wirksworth and Duffield are great places to visit in their own right (heck, the local brewery publishes a pub map of Wirksworth when promoting the railway). It advertises well, it knows its market and everyone is friendly even when on a busy bank holiday.

    Crich seems to be doing somewhat ok, but they've just been issuing another call for volunteers in both 'trade' and local press recently, suggesting a shortage of people.

    Butterly is pretty much a no-go in terms of an actual railway visiting site due to issues with the owner of the campsite at the bottom of the Golden Valley. This is why they started calling themselves the Midland Railway Centre - Butterly and this killed off a lot of secondary spend visitors who used to go straight to Swanick Junction. (The car parks were made huge for this purpose at Swanick, and are now barely used).

    I went there after about 8 years after I stopped volunteering up there and by god, the site looked tired. Weeds on the platform, dirty Mk1's and horribly maintained rooves as well as a linear scrapyard that had extended right into Butterly Station proper. Nearly all development at the place ongoing is now mostly done by private members and groups, not the Trust itself. (I believe the new boiler folks moved into the Princess Trust's West Shed area?)

    It also goes from nowhere, to nowhere and no real chance of expansion due to the A38 and A610 roads and the rumour mill ground out that Derby City Council, who own the site and several locomotives and other items, want to dispose of their collection (They actually forgot they owned them). They've also apparently raised their site storage fees recently due to apparent need for finances, and people not paying.

    GCR is more in a different area, but running as it will do in the next 5-10 years from two major english cities is certainly going to do them a world of good.
     
  19. westernrenown

    westernrenown New Member

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    In discussions I’ve had with the Peak Park (with my cycling hat on ) they are very clear that the economic benefits of the Monsal Trail are significant, and unlikely to be exceeded if replaced by Peak Rail
     
  20. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Rail and trail would be best in my opinion and I suspect Peak Rail's as well, as any likely line from Rowsley to Bakewell is also only going to use the one line and thus leave space for the trail to be extended right down to Matlock. You'd be able to hit families both ways then, they can come out and enjoy a train ride, and then return to bike it, or vice versa.
     

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