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Pennine Explorer 22/05/21 60163 Tornado

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Groks212, May 12, 2021.

  1. Mike Wylie

    Mike Wylie New Member

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    As long as it was single fireman, then very impressive stuff. Certainly crews and loco are capable of it. If it was two firemen like some of 46229s runs in the 80s and 90s then its of no performance interest sadly.

    As I have said elsewhere however Ais Gill and loco off at Hellifield is very different proposition to Ais Gill and loco and fireman continuing to York or Crewe.
     
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  2. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Not my video, just one that I viewed in awe yesterday and thought it was worth sharing on here.

    Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk
     
  3. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Which is interesting as we were on the 24th June 2010 Border Raider with 13 on. After an Appleby stop, despite that longish 20 mph slack around Helm, Tornado stormed over Ais Gill summit at 53mph in just on 23mins if my records are accurate. Not got a full log of that and haven't got the Blue Riband Section time. That was a mighty impressive run. Any chance of comparing the two runs Ian?
     
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  4. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Part of the furniture

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    Yes, that is interesting. As it currently stands, the only Tornado data I have is that 16/09/2017 one, but if anyone has 24/06/2010 I’ll happily enter it in for comparison.

    21/10/2006 with 71000 would also be interesting for comparison, as I believe that is the record for 13, unless it has been improved on since…
     
  5. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Tornado is indeed a mighty machine, and Saturday's flattening of Ais Gill must surely be a highlight (Hill? What hill?) - but I'm sure that I'm not alone in looking forward to some competition with her cousin, Blue Peter, when she returns to the main line. (Plus the inevitable A1, A2, A3, A4 galas :) )

    Bring it on!
     
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  6. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Can't upload my excel files but 7th January 1984 , 46229 on 13 for 455/490 tons Ais Gill MP 260 (top of 1 in 100) passed at 53 mph and the summit sign at 55 mph in 22 mins exactly from the Appleby start. Last 3 miles to MP 260 2,520 edbh. The 13 with BIL would weigh about 480 tare, 500 gross., assuming restricted seating. I agree BIL seems subdued now and on our run last February didnt need to be pushed to keep time. Maybe drivers are reluctant to let the immense power of this big Bulleid loose? If anyone has a detailed log of Tornado on 22nd May then I can include it in my column. Don
     
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  7. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    I agree that runs with 2 firemen (or fireman and inspector taking turns, perhaps) should be acknowledged and treated differently, just as one shouldn't compare 10-coach with 13-coach runs, nor Jubilees with Duchesses, but "of no interest"? Really?
     
  8. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Unfortunately - or fortunately as a big fan of 6024 - we were on the Limited, Taunton to Penzance on that day. We heard about the Duke's run from friends onboard. One of the many times when we wanted to be in two places at once.
     
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    'Drivers reluctant to let loose the immense power of the big Bulleid', what rubbish, why should they, their job is to get the train from A to B more or less in the allotted time, not to work the loco to its maximum just to satisfy a few timekeepers. On last Tuesday's Dalesman we had a great run southbound over the S&C with BIL barking away merrily at the front, no records were broken but it was a sparkling performance and everybody was happy, and the loco not pushed unnecessarily.
     
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  10. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Agree with not doing 'steam for show' but we were late off Carlisle with known potential pathing issues at both Hellifield and Horrocksford. Usually crews get a hurry on to get back on time. Didn't happen which is a surprise with big Class 8 with such a superb steam raising boiler on the front. We even lost time to Appleby.
     
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  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Someone has said that there was a driver? in training even though Steve Chipperfield was on the footplate. If true then that explains everything. And even if it's not the case SC will hurry when it's necessary or the conditions allow so who are we to comment on what should have happened?

    As someone who likes a good run and has had such from all the key locos based at Carnforth, I'm with @RalphW on this one.

    Be grateful for what you get. At least nearly all crews are keen.
     
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  12. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Agreed...and lets not forget two WCR firemen have died on the footplate of steam locomotives in the past. I'm sure those tragedies are not lost on the drivers demand for steam.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  13. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    What's the point ? If a locomotive is on top of it's job, if the crew are working reasonably comfortably, what's the point of 'letting it loose' and then having to be looped?
    My car will go like a stabbed rat, uphill and down dale, I know what it will do, IF REQUIRED
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    How old is a typical mainline fireman these days? What was physically possible in the 1950s when a mainline fireman would be in their twenties and accustomed to doing the job daily is maybe not prudent with firemen considerably older and doing the job perhaps monthly or thereabouts. (No disrespect to modern day crew implied - just a dose of realism).

    Tom
     
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  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you stopped short but didn’t want to move the train, is it acceptable to uncouple, draw the loco forward for water, then go back and recouple? Or does that add procedural complications on the mainline?

    Tom
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I think monthly is a bit out particularly with WCR since now we are getting back to normal most crews are out a couple of time a week with Dalesman, Scarborough spas and various RTC jobs just for starters.
     
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    And on age? My impression of firing back in the day was that it was a relatively young man’s game.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  18. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    And reading eg Firing Days at Saltley, they did work themselves very hard then...
     
  19. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Member

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    Some of these comments are very entertaining!

    As has been mentioned, it looks as though Tornado had a good run BUT it has already been mentioned on another thread that it was an assessment for the fireman so with all due respect to those wanting records straight out of the box, the main concern of the fireman himself and the inspector assessing him, in this case Steve Chipperfield, was to get the job done in a safe and viable manner with the right result at the end of it, well done Mr Clark by the way!

    Bang on Ralph, they won't also be the ones having to repair said loco if something happens to it!

    Don, there's a time and place to push loco's but this clearly wasn't one of those occasions.
     
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  20. peckett

    peckett Member

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    It was all done on seniority, A cleaner who started in motive power say on 01/01/1955 would always be in front of someone who started on 02/01/1955 ,it didn't matter how good or bad a person was, at the job ,fireman or driver ,the man who stared 01/01 /1955 would always be in front for promotion .Sheds varied a lot ,it depended on the employment position in the area, in London I know fireman at 25 were being promoted to passed fireman, at 33A Plaistow ,and 70A Nine Elms not much later. 17B Burton ,men well into there forties, were still waiting to be passed out for driving. One set would come on Kettering shed each day and there was a continual moan /leg pull about young drivers. Even worse , remote places in Wales on the GWR ,some would never reach the position of full driver ,especially if they started in their twenties, rather than at 15. .Any one could transfer to another depot ,all vacancies had to be advertised before the local man would move up. So a fireman say at Burton could transfer to Plaistow and would be promoted to passed fireman in his early 20s.My father at Kettering was moved up to passed fireman when he was about 32 ,a full driver when he was about 42. That was a good average .I know he was still shovelling coal on 9Fs in his early forties, but if a driver new his mate was up to it they would take turns on driving and firing. One good thing was they changed mates every 12 months .
    A driver who thrashed away wasn't very popular ,gowers they called them, now one wanted to go to work to shovel extra coal just because his mate blazed away. I've been over the S AND C times, on the night sleeper from St Pancras behind Royal scots .With my head out of the first coach very little could be heard of the loco climbing up to Ais Gill. I don't think fireman of old would think of much of todays driving.
     

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