Permanent Way materials for Heritage Railways

It is harder and harder to obtain decent second hand track these days for just the transportation costs unless you happen to be gifted it by a wealthy contractor/dealer heavily allied to preservation or are willing to pay through the nose for it from a scrap merchant/dealer.

I am indebted to a Network Rail colleague who has worked on the big railway for 35 years, about this piece for all those people who (through no fault of their own) have little or no understanding about permanent way acquisition (certain names and locations protected for obvious reasons)

“There are many procedures to follow to successfully procure track work;

1) Identify what you want. e.g a Left Hand C switch, or some plain line.

2) Identify a friendly project manager in Network Rail S&C renewals or Carillion (who do the S&C renewals for NR) who is not like the majority of managers (who are very anti heritage railways).

For example xxxxxxx is presently at xxxxxxxxx IMT (integrated management team, i.e Carillion’s and Network Rails management combined doing S&C renewals (& sometimes plain line loops) in xxxxxxx region)

3) Phone him and ask him to identify a future job in the coming years programme (years run April to March each year) which not only has what you want, but will have road/lorry access in a yard AND a friendly Engineering Supervisor who will (instead of cutting it all up to bits as usual) preserve it in an intact reusable way, and get it moved to the said yard.

4) Ring first, then get an Email confirming same (from for example xxxxx) to xxxxxxx (the only friendly to Heritage railways department head (level 1 Band 1) who is still prepared to release stuff to heritage railways by personally obtaining permission from on high (higher than him in NR at York) from Network Rails highest level of management allowing xxxxxxxx to release the stuff to Heritage railways). The Email from xxxxxxx type person should quote the insurance the heritage railway workforce will have including amount in £, liability details etc.

5) Get someone like xxxxxx to make out a method statement and a risk assessment which is satisfactory and likely to be accepted by Network Rail. (xxxxxx does NR ones so he knows what they expect). xxxxxxxx would then send that to the NR Engineering Supervisor or Project Manager.

6) Get told by Engineering supervisor and project manager the actual date of the night the stuff will get taken out and the one or two days they will expect you to come mob handed with lorries to dismantle it and take it all away.

7) A large track gang is needed to dismantle it into it's component parts so it can be transported by lorry with Hi-ab. Most people don't want to do this, very often you get let down and it ends up you have to take annual leave on the Monday/Tuesday to go with the lorry driver on your own to collect the remainder of the stuff in order for your railway not to be unpopular with the donors of the stuff (otherwise you won't be invited back to take more in future, and if you leave stuff behind, they have to arrange a scrap company like Trackworks to collect what you have not)

9) At least one lorry with Hi-ab & trained driver needed (£650-900 PER DAY COST)

10) all track gang need all over orange hi vis and hard hats and steel toe cap boots.



It is Not possible to just say "OOH ! I saw a load of track at X location. Why can’t we get that haul?

Here is why:

Firstly it stays there unless there is a planned Network Rail job to remove it.(and even if that unlikely event happens my last 10 point list applies, but with a different department). Also a T3 possession at present costs £1,460. to any outsider and that only is granted if a possession is already planned months or years in advance for other NR work at the same time at the same place.

Secondly, Network Rail charges add up to thousands of pounds for Supervision of workers going to a yard/location WITH PRIOR PERMISSION FIRST. (A typical 1 shift job adds up to about £5,000 for NR Asset Protection supervision and background costs.)

Thirdly, Train delay costs add up to thousands of pounds if anything stops train movements by accident, even for a little while. (even a plank of wood dropped accidentally on or near the line will stop train movements until it has been investigated and just 5 or 10 minutes of delays adds up to between a few hundred to a thousand pounds.(PTS etc would be needed to retrieve it )

It is not the old railway where people barged onto the track in their anoraks to get a snap of KGV going past. It is a over zealously safety conscious railway now which wants the ins and outs of the cats behind looked into, months in advance, and payment for your proposed activity, even as a neighbour to Network Rail, never mind wanting to come onto NRs own land, near the operating railway.

Also now scrap metal prices are so high, if stuff does get removed it goes by special wagons (to carry it safely, locked down) to xxxxxx, to get recycled or cut up for scrap. This includes switches (or points).

Also you'll find 99 per cent of NR managers won't even consider releasing stuff outside NR now, xxxxxx is the only one prepared to do this amongst the many I have approached in xxxxxx Region.

You need to understand NR managers these days are not "risen through the ranks railway friendly long term railway family people" the ones these days have come in with a degree from university and within a year or so got promoted to a head of department and are still in their twenties or thirties and only like football and hate railways and hate railway liking people. Many is the time I have heard persons with a railway interest described within the present day railway workplace as sad b#st#rds.

I also quote a recent senior management statement referring to the RMT union "a union leadership stuck in the steam age"

To put it blunty, Ex Students run Network Rail. Railway enthusiasts are not very welcome.

 

You got a chip on your shoulder? Can't you have your own way?

 

Which reminds me - what happened to all that lovely track and pointwork outside the former New Cross depot on the East London Line? I saw that was being demolished a week or so back.

Regards,

Dan

 

My thoughts exactly...

 

I don't think Mendips Engineman has a 'chip on his shoulder' as he is quoting his contact at Network Rail.

 

I feel that is a very concise methodology for people who don't know how to go about it. Although there are still some friendly managers on NR as Mendips Engineman says they are few and far between now. Thanks for a very informative post

 

It is all about building and maintaining relationships and making sure you can be as flexible as possible - I personally don't recognise the points made in the origianl post although I'm sure there are people out there who would make you stick by them!

 

Err - last time i looked Network Rail was not a charity

 

Should have added the majority of materials (if not all the rail / switches etc) at PR can from various reclamation jobs in the private sector e.g. NCB / British Coal, Power Stations (Cottam / Hams Hall) or other industrial sites rather than Network Rail / BR. When we recovered Bamford Box we had a very friendly Regional Signalling Engineer who certainly openned doors - the box itself cost £150 + VAT but the transport costs were huge - 2 low loaders with drivers / 1 crane / 1 Lift Supervisor. Fortunately we didn't need to pay BR anything as they had got a closure on the line at the time. Tim's "Memories of Railway Volunteer" are a good indication of reclamation jobs in times gone past were organised.

In fairness to NR staff they are there to do a job

 

Good Thread, well put Mendip Engineman.
Much as the preservationists might struggle with the paper trail and the difficulties of finding someone that will talk to them and even greater trust them to execute the works required from their side of the bargain, to the book on time !!

Most of the people on the network are very cagey and rightly too, as in many instances the jobs have not come off without a hitch ..

Interestingly there was a very good topic in Rail Infrastructure issue 72 Nov / Des 2009 page 25 & 26 titled "when is waste not a waste" its about LDC's and details about the forthcomming plans to re process all Removed material through these NR sites, preservationists need to be aware that very soon it will be almost impossible to get materials off the network direct from lifted site .

This magazine is by sender only and not very easy to get your hands on, or registered for, but it is an exceptionally well published book bi monthly and every serious PW man should read it. If you cannot get your hands on this write up ,about Local Distribution Centres ( LDC's)& ( UTMHF's) Used track materials handling Facility's and the NTMRC national track materials recycling centre at March Whitemoor .And you want to read it contact me and I will photo copy it and send it to you or scan and email.

Regards to all Readers especially P way men.

The railway infrastructure business is changing fast , and I fear preservation is not keeping up with the changes,, not even aware they are happening, this book helps you keep a step or two behind the leaders or if your realy keen you might just get half a step in front.soon one step behind will be too much of a gap.

 

Individuals on here may not be aware of the changed policy on disposals but I can assure you that The Heritage Railway 'industry' is well aware of these changes through the Heritage Railway Association. At its recent seminar in Crewe there was a presentation on this very subject by the person on Network Rail with overall responsibility for disposals. One comment among many that I made note of was the fact that NR have no bullhead materials available for disposal as they don't have sufficient to meet their own needs.

I've re-read Mendips Enginemans first post and with my first response, I am perhaps guilty of mis-interpreting it as a grumble at this new policy. If I have, my sincere apologies.

 

Hi Steve

My post was self inspired and did not relate to anyones comments on what the the op had said, I fear though that many of the people within preservationdo not attend these seminars, only the railway managements occasionally and few of those are actually hands on men when it comes to the grimy stuff.So the knowledge in many cases falls on stony ground and detail is not 100% transfered.I was refering in my original comment to the smaller out fits,I believe few of those are yet into writing work statments and procurment plans.

 

Hi.

I'd be extremely grateful to recieve a copy of "Rail Infrastructure". As Woody said above, I generally preferred to go for industrial sources in the past, but most of those sources are now gone.

Regards,

Tim

 

Interesting & slightly worrying topic. So whats to be done in the future? Are you track men making personal contacts? Thats the way the world works after all!
I know what you mean M.E. about 'students' running the railway now with no history of coming up through the ranks, no pride in the job any more.