'Plandampf UK'

ADMIN, maybe this thread could relocate... please advise ?

A recent Magazine article calls for a poll on suggestions for a UK ‘Plandampf, style event where regular scheduled workings are turned over to steam working… What would you’re suggestion be.?

Given the ’blessing’ of the authorities how workable, in truth would your scenario be and what kind of Motive power would you need ?

E.G. One popular suggestion is going to be the Settle – Carlisle, Could a short rake behind a '7P' keep to timetable with a ‘Sprinter’ on a stopping train?
Could double headed Black 5’s handle the fast freights on this line ? or would you need Brits or larger to match the class 66…

How/ where would you service the half dozen locos needed for this, or a similar event elsewhere…

And how could it pay for itself ?

 

I think the problem would be finding a suitable line that could be turned over to steam for say a weekend, without actually interfering with other traffic. I doubt if the S & C would now fit into that category because of the freight flows, which would be unsuitable for steam haulage for a variety of reasons. The S & C has some very long block sections unless they have now been split with intermediate block sections.

One line that does come to mind is the York - Scarborough line. Reasonable length, turntables at both ends, and probably no freight traffic.

However, as we enter an "age of austerity" ( no pun intended...) how would turning a modern scheduled service over to steam pay for itself? You cannot expect "ordinary" passengers to pay premium fares, can you?

 

Apart from the German Rail 175 celebrations where a premium fare was charged, all the other public Plandampf events I have attended have charged normal fares. Back in 2005 we bought a day run about ticket valid for 5 people for the princely sum of about €30. Not bad for a full day behind a selection of Pacifics.

 

How about the Crewe - Shrewsbury - Crewe line? Turning triangle available at Shrewsbury and facilities at Crewe for steam haulage...the line at the moment only has a 2 hourly stopping service with just a non stop between them, each only a couple of coaches

Lewis

 

The West Country has fantastic potential using the turning facilities at Bristol, Yeovil, Westbury, Salisbury, Portsmouth and the Eastleigh loop. Using Salisbury or Bristol as a centre trains could be operated on a number of routes including Bristol-Pompey, Bristol to Yeovil and Yeovil to Salisbury. It would also allow a good mix of LMS, GWR and Southern traction in a fairly authenthic environment. Diesels could include peds, 33s, the Hastings Unit and maybe the 52 Add in a pair of Black 5s on a train of loaded seacows from Whatley or Tor and it could be a cracking event!

In Germany passenger plandampfs are now usually a series of railtours and very rarely replace actual services. Unfortunately that is probably all that could ever be achieved in the UK and then only with massive external support. Also I doubt the average UK enthusiast would be prepared to pay £250 for a weekends line siding and most would expect to free load. The German freight plandampfs are of course often the genuine thing...see you there in Oct or Feb?

 

This was 'tried' on the West highland a few years back but Scotrail got concerns and insisted on putting on a replacement bus service as they didn't want to risk people missing the ferry connections to Skye and hence it was more enthusiasts travelling than Joe public. DMU's are allowed to do 40mph along the entire length of the line while steam is limited to 30mph north of Glenfinnan and therefore matching DMU timings would've been difficult.
Another line that would be suitable is the North Warwicks with the Shakespeare express already doing a good job during the summer, however is there still a northbound weight restriction on the line?
I don't think we could ever have a true plandampf as steam will always require a higher ticket price than normal fares and therefore big sponsership/subsidy would be needed. Steam will also always struggle to match a DMU's acceleration (particularly with a heavier load) and will therefore not be able to keep to service train timetables. This doesn't proclude a Sunday take over of a lightly used branchline with co-operation of the TOC!

 

Only because the state funded it and the timetable totally recast to suit steam operations. Obviously they can not afford to do it anymore.

I agree it was good value unless you suffered staggering 01 118!

 

My suggestion would be the Harrogate Loop with the steam augmenting the current 2 unit diesel railcars at peaktimes. Even a Pannier with three period coaches on the hook would actually be an improvement on the current rolling stock.
Perhaps the local passenger transport exec would part fund this as a way of 'shaming' the current service.
Theres no freight on this line that im aware of and part of the appeal of such an event would be to see this and i guess the only way to fund it would be for the punters who most want to see it to Finance it up front, which grates a bit when the hordes turn up to watch for nothing.
Still only by seeing the majesty of hard working steam 'live' will a sizeable new generation of enthusiasts be developed. . .

 

I think the only way this would work in the UK these days would be to try and find a line where a smallish number of additional passenger trains, all steam hauled, could be fitted in amongst the normal services. Over, say, a Bank Holiday weekend to get a worthwhile 3 days of such operation. If such a line exists anymore!

The additional steam hauled trains would attract a rail tour type premium fare, and linesiders would be asked to contribute to the event as well. Doing that would at least give the event a slim chance of meeting it's costs. Against a background where freeloaders would be impossible to stop.

But how much would it cost to get, say, 3 or 4 main line locos operating such a service over three days? I suspect way, way above the likely income from train riders and those linesiders prepared to pay the sums needed. And in the new financial regime the country is moving towards I find it hard that we will get a local County Council, or whatever the equivalent is to a German State, stepping in with funding.

No. Sadly I can't see such an event going ahead.

Maybe the best we can expect is a major celebration somewhere, (not even on a railway subject), that could attract a number of individual steam hauled excursions from different parts of the country over a period of several days. The Olympics? Probably not because of the location: unless some of the "outsourced events", (rowing or sailing?), are where significant numbers of steam hauled trains could run.

 

03 1010 was the star for me - bashed that twice along with a 52 and that poxy V200 when the Neustadt turntable stuck. Trying to recall what else we went behind. We'll have to see what the future holds for "public" Plandampf but IIRC the regional government and tourist authorities were prepared to underwrite the costs because of the benefit to the local economy. Can't see that happenig in the UK somehow.

 

How about a week or two on the Chester-Holyhead line, including the Blaenau and Llandudno branches?
Brits, Duchesses, Princesses and the Duke on 8+ coach limited stops to Holyhead
Black 5's on 3-4 coaches all stations to Holyhead
4MT's on 4 coaches from Llandudno to Blaenau
8F on the nuclear flasks (wishful thinking)
9F on the Penmaenmawr stone train (very wishful thinking!!)

Interchange with Voyagers etc at Chester to keep extra movements clear of Crewe
Turning facilities exist at Chester and Valley
The Welsh Assembly might be persuaded to sponsor/support such a major tourist event.
If modern traction was banned for the week, and heritage diesels (40 37 & 20's) used as spare locos, there would be no problems in trying to match the acceleration/braking rates of the modern trains.

Just my thoughts I might add.

 

03 1010 is fantastic but give me an 01.5 any day. Perhaps you should put the 5th and 6th Feb in the diary as you might well see the 03 on some semi-fast passengers....

 

Nice one but I think it will be a while before we have more than one each of a Duchess and a Princess available for such an event. Mind you, I think it will be an even longer while before NR could be persuaded to sanction such an event.

 

An 01.5 is a beast of a machine but you simply can't beat that three cylinder sound IMHO. I'll put 5+6/2/11 in my diary but no guarantee I can attend. When you run your own small business, time off is limited. I do hope to make this October's event though.

 

Panniers doing some devon and cornwall branches at one end of the scale and kings and castles doing 'Bristolians' at the other - bring it on!!

 

There's the pannier runs on the Looe branch in September close to a uk Plandampf ?
Brian

 

Bring back "Steam on the Met".

 

As ever the advocate of industrials, are there ANY remaining industrial sites with a worthwhile railway system and agreeable management? Working steam is working steam afterall!

Failing that, steam on the met would get my vote, if only!