Preserved lines with/without mainline connections

On the Paignton & Dartmouth, revenue-earning services coming direct from the main line are well established. The NYMR now serves Whitby. The NNR is close to financing its link at Sheringham. Where else could this trend be continued, and in what format?

I accept that direct services, run from large cities behind mainline-ticketed locos, will remain the exception not the rule, but there's both an environmental and an economic case for an alternative. This would be to provide a convenient interchange station with separate dedicated platforms for NR and preserved services, on as many lines as possible.

It's not a new concept; the NYMR have theirs at Grosmont, the MHR at Alton, the SVR at Kidderminster. The Bluebell wants theirs at East Grinstead so badly that they're digging out a tip. It looks like a new platform may happen at Manuel, for the Bo'ness & Kinneil. Etc., etc., I suppose (?).

There's a clear environmental case for (re-)joining preserved lines to the network. Summer weekend car journeys in the area along the preserved the line could be reduced, significantly reduced on gala days. There would be less pressure to build or enlarge park & rides. And economically, I can't actually see any losers. Local businesses get a potential for increased visitors, the preserved lines sell more tickets, as do national train operators. Which would - or should - interest NR more, a park & ride at Norton Fitzwarren or an interchange platform at Taunton?

Maybe the preservation movement should do an audit of the whole country, to see who could feasibly benefit. I can think of Honeybourne (GSWR) and Northallerton (Wensleydale), but I hope you can list many more. What's the station geography like at Wareham or Wymondham NR for example, any unused land and buildings on the convenient side of the tracks?

This would not be for quick fixes, but a long-term strategy. The movement as a whole needs to create a lobbying channel. Every line could contribute by publishing fund-raising appeals, mounting display maps etc. for their colleagues.

The point is that anything which improves the money-making potential of one line increases the economic clout of the whole industry as a niche within tourism. Economic clout means more security against political whims, and a higher media profile, so more chance of earning enough to realise those traction and rolling stock dreams.

 

The Spa Valley Railway will soon be extending to Eridge where interchange with National Rail services on the London- Oxted- Uckfield line. Its main terminus at Tunbridge Wells West is only 10 mins walk from the National Rail station at Tunbridge Wells Central on the London- Hastings line.
The heritage railways who already have direct interchange with NR services find that only a small percentage of passengers use that interchange facility. The majority of visitors use their cars to travel direct to a heritage railway.
The Ffestiniog Railway have direct interchange with NR at both ends of their line at Blaenau Ffestiniog and Minffordd. Some other direct interchanges are Vale of Rheidol at Aberystwyth, Ravenglass and Eskdale Rly at Ravenglass, Strathspey Railway at Aviemore, and finally Isle of Wight Railway with its unique "exchange" station at Smallbrook Jn.

 

At the Severn Valley (and Spa Valley soon), passengers can actually change trains from mainline to heritage railway. The railway can benefit from visitors arriving by rail, but trains generally keep to their own lines. However, other railways don't have an interchange station (eg. Swanage, West Somerset and Embsay in the future?). These therefore need mainline-approved locos and stock to provide the connecting service - with higher costs associated with it.

Would the costs of installing, signalling and maintaining a main-line connection and locos/stock ever be off-set by the increase in business which the connection might bring? The railway might get some extra business from visitors who arrive by rail, and may get the occasional steam railtour. But I don't think the numbers add up.

Richard

 

It goes without saying that a Mainline connection is very much worth having not only for reasons of visitor generation, as loco movement must be massively easier surely ?. I certainly use NR connections whenever possible rather than get the car out. I went up from London to K&WVR for the day last year as it has a NR connection. I wouldn't have entertained that journey for the day by car. I am very much looking forward to a trip to SPA valley, but only when it has its connection and I am thinking the same about Bluebell as well as I have never visited that either. I also have a plan to visit the Strathspey for the day from London as well, by going up on the sleeper and returning on same. Very handy an NR platform on the big railway from my point of view. \/ =D> :-k

 

Wymondham is good as the station is complete, attractive and could probably handle the odd extra train but the MNR is concentrating on extending north and improving the existing line. It's only been around proper for 10 or so years (all volunteer) there is alot to look after and do so it's not high up the list of things to do yet . The connection has been used for a couple of railtours and the odd freight (army and DRS servicing) plus visiting locos for diesel galas.
It's also only a mile or so the Abbey station.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1335747
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1336010
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1335997
Trains would have to be T&T and the spur be brought up to passenger carrying standard


Peak Rail are going back to Matlock soon so adding another interchange station to the list.

 

Steamybrian and Richard, we're still living in the petroleum age, when people's first thought before going anywhere further away is to reach for the navi, and second, for the car keys.

Now think forward 15 years - which is how long it might take some railways to realise a potential mainline connection. Here's one scenario:

The last ever car with a petrol-only engine will be sold this year, 2024, though diesel will hang around longer because a satisfactory electric commercial vehicle won't yet be on the market. There'll be a 60 mph speed limit, enforced not by cameras, but by an electronic cruise controller built into your new car (disabling it will be a nine-point offence at the DVLA). Every mile of your road use will be priced using satellite tracking systems, and it won't be cheap. The rich will drive cars with four self-charging electric motors fitted one to each wheel hub. The rest of us will be reluctant to go anywhere where we don't know there's a charging socket (whether fitted into a parking meter or Grandad's garage) at the other end.

So more people than ever before will be going by train (FAR more people, have you seen the WCML forecasts for 2012?) and overcrowding will still be the major problem. In Britain, demand for train services will, sadly, always be ahead of investment (e.g. new lines, new stations on existing lines, better signalling for more frequent trains) because the government will still be paying off the debt from this current mess, so can't afford what's really needed.

I wouldn't be surprised if mainline steam is restricted to Sundays, not for carbon emission reasons, but because fewer trains run that day, and it'll be the only day when elf & safety will allow trains without in-cab signalling onto the lines.

So there'll be hundreds of shiny locos to go and see on preserved lines, and the train will be a real alternative for people travelling singly or in pairs. Among preserved lines, the winners will be those who make getting to them as convenient as possible. This might mean ample car parking and recharging facilities, might mean courtesy bus shuttles from the nearest current NR station; but it should also mean easy access via mainline service trains where possible.

Stop thinking about now, think ahead. The extra custom may not be worth the hassle and expense yet, but in future it could be a matter of business survival.

 

I think you need to give your crystal ball a clean. Looking in mine, all I can see is:
* lots more trains on the mainline to take all those extra passengers 7 days a week, so no room for mainline steam railtours
* lots more cars on the roads (the RAC's predictions were right)
* lots of shiny diesel and electric locos on preserved lines, as coal-fired machinery has been banned on environmental grounds
* and lots of preserved railways are still trying to bring in visitors, competing with lots of other attractions which are easier to get to (by hover-bike!)

But the good news is that a group has just been set up to try to preserve a Eurostar.

Richard

 

Hopefully not at the Dunstable Heritage Centre. It will be longer than the running line. :smt002

 

I think you're a born pessimist Richard, but let's take your predictions at face value.

No more mainline steam railtours? So the Big Engines will have to be shown off elsewhere (something tells me there's a big future for a unified GCR North & South)
Lots more cars on the roads? Correct, so road journeys will take even longer than today. Meaning that the minimum distance at which train schedules are competitive will shrink.
Preserved railways will have to compete harder? Yes, and service/convenience will count just as much as product.

The only one where I can't follow you is the no-more-steam scenario. As I said in my opening post, the more this branch of the tourist industry grows, the more it endears itself to the Exchequer. Already there are a few lines with enough turnover to be a major local income generator. This country loves its past probably more than any other on earth, and such an Act would be seen as cultural and economic treason by local councils. Many are already our allies, though others are probably not yet aware enough of us. I don't think the bill would get through parliament.

And anyway, how many thousand tons of coal do steam railways buy and burn each year? Not enough to outweigh one morning rush-hour on the M25, I think. A generation after there are no more emissions from roads, you might be right, but not yet.

 

I don't think having a connection for us is such a problem at the moment for us on the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway. Our connection was actually deliberately removed in 2002 when the mainline was upgraded to allow faster running through Duffield and we don't really want it back. The figured quoted for keeping the connection on such a high speed stretch of line weren't really worth considering. Sure it would allow excursions etc to come through but a degree of separation actually allows more freedom to have your own standards and rules etc. Locomotive movement isn't a problem because they can just be moved by road (it seems moving locomotives by rail is extremely expensive anyway and not all are certified).

At Duffield, we will have a connection to the mainline in the sense that the mainline serves platforms 1 and 2 and we have platform 3 so passengers will simply be able to walk across the platforms before continuing their journeys. This is not always a bad thing because having travelled the 9 miles already, passengers may want to stop for a comfort break and use the facilities that will be built at the station.

 

So in fact you'll have an ideal situation; keep your independence, but ensure convenience for passengers - in all senses of the word at Duffield . I've realised that a rail connection to move mainline trains onto a preserved line, and an easy foot connection (not more than 2 mins. walk, even better if just across a platform) for the paying public, are two separate issues. I'd say that the second is more important to the casual visitor, and so will help to safeguard a line's future more effectively.

 

Not forgetting East Anglian Railway museum which is at the mainline station

 

I've been to the Bo'ness & Kinneil and back from Peterborough in a day.
I did a bit of research and knew I had 10 mins to change trains at Waverley.
10 mins at Linlithgow to get from station to the bus and on arrival in Bo'ness,
10 minutes from the bus station to the train leaving! I was lucky enough to have the Caley Tank make a storming ascent of the bank.
The return was far more leisurely with a good look round Bo'ness yard & sheds and when I got back to Waverley, was able to sit down to eat my tea.

Back on topic; preserved lines with or near a main line connection are far more likely to attract people other than rail enthusiasts who don't want to make a major expedition. Apart from those mentioned which have a main line interchange The NVR and Mid Norfolk have stations within walking distance of their local main line station. Glos & Warks, and WSR have a short bus journey to make, but Llangollen (for example) is a day in itself if you're not a local.

 

Do we actually know which form of traction (steam or diesel) is worst in long term environmental terms?

I know that the proper burning of coal (not as seen in your clag photos) produces quantities of carbon dioxide and the obvious ash - but what are the products of diesel combustion and how harmful are they?

Time to wise up on this before the inevitable questions arise more widely???

 

Electric is very poor, most comes from coal fired power stations which means the coal is burnt quite efficiently and produces the power but then lots of the electricity is lost through transporting it to where it's needed. I think 25% of what's produced is actually used.
Then you have the electric motors that aren't 100% efficient.
Point power generators are the best for the planet (diesels and steam are just that)

 

Another main line link is the Foxfield Railway. It's a pleasant 15 minute walk from Blythe Bridge. Eventually they may get back to the exchange sidings next to the mainline. Hopefully some sort of footpath access will be arranged to give about a 5 minute walk between stations.

Before anyone picks up on the 15 minute walk between stations, just have a look at the National Rail enquiry site and see how long they allow to change between main line and underground stations. A few weekends ago I equalled their Euston arrive to Waterloo depart allowance and managed a (rushed) pint in the Bree Louise near Euston station.
Excluding disruption, I find (even with family in tow) that about 20% can be cut from platform to platform journey times as quoted by national rail enquiries.

The cross platform change at Bodmin Road (sorry Parkway) is an excellent example of co-operation betwee preservation and the national network. If you can try the tea room (in the old SB) at Bodmin Road, they are very friendly...

What about the North Norfolk Railway - the connection is just across a road. It may be worth checking with NX East Anglia for through fares from Norwich or other main stations in Norfolk.

Cheers, Neil

 

what i cant understand is this, where as most railways would die for a twin track formation, and a connection with nr, my local town would rather see my local branch destroyed and turned into a road #-o the public are openly hostile to anything that would mean giving locals a viable tourist attrction, all they want is high class resturants,that only the few rich can afford and to price everyone except for their own class of person from this town this is or course aided and abetted by a local developer, who tells everyone that he only wants the best for this town ,and the fools believe him [-X

 

Totnes is another example of a connection by a short walk. There was a time when the South Devon Railway (then DVR) trains used the main platform but the charges levied become prohibitive. With the demise of the milk factory/creamery, I would imagine that it'd be physically possible to extend the railway up more or less to the mainline station but that would cost a hell of a lot of money for little gain.

 

You can tell us Martin, which town is that?

 

Coal and gas are much more equal than you think, and the gas proportion is rising. Both are just over 1/3 of the total, so hardly "most comes form coal-fired...". Don't believe me? Look at this link http://www.berr.gov.uk/energy/statistic ... 18527.html and download DUKES 5.4

1/3 of NR overhead lines powered from coal - is that so bad in a country built on top of coal? Not as bad as 100% from oil where diesel is concerned. Perhaps that's one reason why they're going to electrify the GWR main line, and about b****y time!

Clean up the coal power stations with carbon capture technology I say. Invest seriously in developing that instead of leaving the French to pioneer it, as is happening now. This Government's green credentials are mostly bull, same goes for "we're a world leader in electric cars". Poppycock!