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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Now that at the Ecclesbourne valley with a few LMS coaches behind would be a treat!!

    But still it's got to be a Fowler 2-6-4tank for me!!!
     
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  2. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    Yes, I like that Midland 0-4-4 tank too. Choice of three liveries as well as the last ones were not withdrawn until about 1960

    Anything LMS, Midland or LNWR gets my vote (my Euromillions loco is still a Claughton, btw!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  3. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget - a Johnson 0-4-4T (and a Kirtley 0-6-0 loco & a North London tank) were laid aside for preservation in Derby Works until they were spotted by the newly-arrived Stanier, who ordered their destruction. The same Stanier who was reportedly instrumental in the scrapping of the 2 Broad Gauge locomotives at Swindon...
     
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  4. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    A Brighton K would be my first choice. I'm very much a dyed-in-the wool Southern man and of all the extinct classes, it definitely ticks the most boxes. The other locos which would be top of my list in an ideal world are all large-wheeled examples and therefore not really ideal for heritage lines - a Wainwright/Maunsell D1 or E1, an LSWR D15 and, considering Gladstone will probably never steam again, a replica of No. 172 Littlehampton, the only Gladstone to survive long enough to see the Brighton main line electrified throughout. Admittedly the Brighton Atlantic has large wheels, but the selection of this class was determined by the availability of the boiler. I'd also love to see a Stroudley D1 tank, but would Joe Public really notice the difference from a Terrier?
     
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  5. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    Yes I like the D1 0-4-2 tank, quite a bit bigger than a Terrier, and a realistic choice of loco, simple design. One (I think it was 2347) outlived the rest of the class by quite a long time as it ended up on the Whittingham Hospital Railway near Preston.
     
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  6. clinker

    clinker Member

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    O.K. maybe I was being to general in my views, if throwing three possible descriptions can be regarded as general, but lets try and see thro' the mist and be objective, In my view Tornado and it's ilk are NEW BUILDS, If the project started with a recognisable 'restorable' loco, ie Maindy Hall, that becomes a loco of a different class then I'd say that it SHOULD BE reffered to as either converted to.... or re-built to the specification of...... if it started with a pile of existing components from the same class it would be built from parts, or if it contains parts of different classes and involves new major components it would be re-created from parts (new and old). As to the SCRAPPING of loco's for these schemes, why not go the whole hog and scrap neverything that isn't your pet class. Is this specific and open minded enough?
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I've often thought a D tank would be good for us, the extra power and range over a Terrier or P would be useful. But I suspect they probably fall between two stalls: they were mostly gone too long ago for any but a handful to have direct memories of them now; while also being too modern to hit another demographic of funders who might be enthused by making something genuinely different. The first rule of any new build is how will it be funded, which in effect means you have to generate appeal to a significant number of people. Thus far, that has tended on the one hand to produce reasonably modern designs (Tornado etc.) that significant numbers of people can remember and wish too see recreated; and on the other hand seriously old designs quite unlike modern engines (Firefly; the Beamish engines; Planet; Rainhill replicas etc.) There is a gap in between that are probably difficult to fund: to long gone to have significant numbers clamouring for them, but too modern to really be "something else". Not impossible (G5, P2), but difficult.

    Tom
     
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  8. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    A few D class did make it to BR but, as far as I know none actually carried their allocated 32xxx numbers. I think the last withdrawal was in 1950, apart from the one sold to Lancashire County Council, which ran until 1956
     
  9. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    That's a myth. According to the records the board - or at least the locomotive committee - was involved in the decision and it was made reluctantly after Churchward spent a couple of years trying to find a home for them.
     
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  10. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    The trouble is you are trying to make a distinction that never historically existed, and also trying to draw a line somewhere in the middle of a grey scale. It is, I submit the same sort of mindset as those who claim that the identity of a locomotive is in the frames, ignoring the well documented historical fact that frames would be replaced if required, just like every other component of the locomotive. Its well documented that a new locomotive with a new identity could, if required, be comprised entirely of secondhand parts.
     
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  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There are so many gaps in the surviving pre-grouping loco stud. When you take away the number which are unlikely to steam again (and even I would suggest 'Gladstone' and 'Hardwicke', plus any number of others, are too valuable to put through the shops again), the number gets vanishingly small.

    I confess a weakness for those little locos from minor lines. My particular favourites were too small and underpowered to be of much use to any heritage operating department except the Alderney Railway. These were the two ex-Jersey Railway 2-4-0Ts which survived until 1940, Sharp, Stewart 'Haro Haro' (2047 of 1870) eked out it's final years at a brickyard and the Dübs loco 'General Don' (1222 of 1879) which survived in service as 'Clevedon' until closure the WC&PR.

    From my own pet lost cause, the Isle of Wight Central, I'm very partial to everything barring a later acquisition, the 'not quite G5' 0-4-4T, which did nothing for the lightly laid PW and somehow didn't look like it 'belonged' to my eye. Given the superb collection of 4 wheelers in service and pending at Haven Street, maybe.... just maybe.... one day. All t'would need is someone as rich as Branson and as clinically bonkers as me.... Oh well, a chap can dream.

    If any of the above were ever to be recreated, they'd look horrendously out of place hauling any thing as modern as Maunsell stock. I think the same applies to most lost Victorian era locos. Could you imagine a SER 'Crampton' struggling up Freshfield Bank with (let's not be too cruel) three MKIs in tow? All shades of wrong... plus, I sort of suspect, the Bluebell Ops folk might prefer to get the Q1 back first. Any such locos would need suitable stock restored or recreated, or what's the point?
     
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  12. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    Werent Cramptons another one which were, by all accounts, a bit crap?
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Since when did that stop anyone proposing a new build (*cough*... 38xx 4-4-0) ? :)

    To be fair, the problem with 'Cramptons' generally was adhesion. Who'd have thought it? Just about anything else can be worked round.

    Check this out:

    Not too sure that chimney arrangement does any more for the loco's performance than it does for it's looks! Superb model though.
     
  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Such as 2744 Grand Parade following the Castlecary smash. It is said that the 'repaired' loco actually passed the damaged one when leaving Doncaster Plant.
     
  15. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    I'd love to see a GWR 455 class 2-4-0 "metro" tank with half cab. A little bit of eye candy that might be useful somewhere!

    :cool:

    (Yeah, never going to happen...)
     
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  16. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Too powerful for their own good may not be the worst problem a loco ever had! But yes, a shortcoming.

    Handsome engines, the tank version more so IMHO. :)
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you want a new build Crampton:

    http://www.cramptonlocomotivetrust.org.uk/

    Whatever their faults in this country, they did seem to be successful in France for a few years. Maybe the loads and gradients were such that they could demonstrate their free running qualities without being compromised by lack of adhesion.

    Tom
     
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  18. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting if the case, From what I have read I was always led to believe that Churchward hated anything old, and liked modern stuff, particularly anything American, hence why things like the Dreadnought coaches etc were influenced by American design. The stupid thing about the scrapping was that North Star was scrapped and then a new one build by the GWR about 25 years later apparently incorporating some parts from the original that were still lying around Swindon works. It is not a full loco as the boiler etc is just a dummy and no tender of course.
    It was then kept in Swindon works for many years, if they could do that with the replica why not the original. Being realistic I am sure if they wanted the GWR could have found somewhere to store them with the many thousands of buildings they must have owned. The driving wheels of the Lord of the Isles also survived and are in the entrance of the Steam museum.

    I know vaguely an ex Swindon works guy who was involved with the replica FireFly and he told me he did have a good look at the replica North Star to see how much of it there is and what would be needed to turn it into a working loco. The chassis at least seemed fairly complete.
     
  19. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Jenny lind. Used by several lines in various forms
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    (Best Kenneth Williams nasal twang) Ooh.... Gawd.... we've got 'im doing it now!

    Points up two things tho'... (1) even the great Churchward had his 'off days' and (2) Maunsell's V (Schools) class really is a superb design.
     
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