Question for cleaners

I always wondered why locos were cleaned with oil or parafin and cotton waste and not a hose pipe and a soft log handled brush...wouldnt the latter have been quicker? How are they cleaned nowadays?

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

firstly, if you use a hose you are going to get water into the axle boxes and motion oiling points , not a good move, the oil will sit on top of the water, making it look like the box has plenty of oil, but will soon run a hot box if you dont prepare the engine properly
using parafine and cotton waste you dont have this problem and as you are working closer to the engine, ie right next to it you will notice things like loose split pins, broken springs that you might not otherwise notice
to clean down an engine, we had a steam cleaner to blast down frames when stripping down parts for overhaul and then , i had to always make sure that i got any water out of bearing surfaces otherwise i would have been for it
theres nothing to say that you couldnt use a hose to clean down paintwork, as long you made sure you didnt fill up the axle boxes i did sometimes use a hose to clean down paint work where we had soapped up the engine it was the best way to get it ready for polishing but we took steps to avoid playing the hose directly onto anywhere that could allow the ingress of water where it wasnt wanted , and afterwards someone would use the sucker to check each axle box and oiling point

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

Hosing down paint work is as absolute "no" for the reasons stated above. We've moved onto cleaning with car polish on painted surfaces, as it seems to be kinder to modern paints, and there are also H&S implications for putting your hands in bucks of kero, even though it is still used on wheels & motion.

Cotton waste is a bad idea too - the threads get into bearings, etc - not good news. It's worth spending a bit more & using rags.

Don't just wonder about cleaning locos - got & try it on your local railway!

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

chance would be a fine thing......railways a bit scarse in this neck of the woods

So water ingress is the worry then? Does the rain not cause similar problems?

I always thought that Buuleid pacifcs were air-smoothed originally so they could use mechanical cleaning plants..Ive no idea if this actually happened, presumably it would cause problems too..

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

Oil and parfin is used at the MHR on the loco - And used to clean the motion too! Hope this helps?

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

We're allowed to use oil&paraffin on the wheels and frames and only polish with a soft rag on the paint work.
And woe betide us if we use any rags that cause scratches on the paintwork.
And we are shown how to go about it before being let loose.
We are also taught how to apply just enough vaseline to give a good protective cover to the rods and buffers etc. without it showing up.
Bob & Alistair Meanley certainly instill a sense of pride in such a "menial" task as cleaning a loco.
I personally have overheard photters moaning about our Hall being to shiny to get a decent picture, especially in sunny conditions.

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

It does to a certain extent, but rain is not under pressure, nor will it ever be aimed directly at the axle boxes.

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

Paraffin is also more effective at removing dirt, particularly the oily crud that builds up on the bottom half, however it isn't too kind to the paintwork, or your hands! Unless you've got a decent detergent, water often just emulsifies the oil, and you end up with a smeary mess!

At Didcot we sometimes use shampoo on the green work, which with a sponge is easy to control, and doesn't leave white rings everywhere, like polish. The problem with polish is that once the paintwork goes, it won't bring it back, whereas a paraffin/oil mix tends to restore some of the colour/depth.

Leaving an engine out in the rain isn't quite the same as blasting a hose at it; the boiler & running plate do provide some degree of protection, however it can still cause problems. The key thing is to act straight away if you suspect something, rather than waiting till you run the engine to find out! If the engine is only seeing intermitent use, you don't want to be leaving it out anyway - it's surprising how much moisture can get into the lagging, and that's not something that finds favour with Benny Boiler Barrel!

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

It has been known to use Hot Water and Washing up liquid on a loco with a spray to wash up and then buff up afterwards!! Not that I would ever do that!!! lol - But it did last all day with the loco cleaned the day before with oil and parafin and having a good wash and buff up by me and some others the following day... Trust me it did work a treat! \/

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

what about compound and a buffer such as in automotive practise?

thx for all the info , its very interesting to know that generally its done now how it always was.......

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

I seem to recall, though this is going back more than 20 years, that Dennis Howells specified that oil and paraffin was NEVER to be used on 9466. Instead it was to be carefully washed and polished every day.

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

On the contrary, I'd say that not many railways now do it 'as it was' with paraffin and rags/cotton waste. Polish is now much more favoured, especially on good paint jobs. A paraffin/oil mix is still king below the running plate, though!

 

Oil and parrafin is what i was told to use with a nice rag from the local hospital.
as for wet cleaning water is never used at the worth

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

Like Steve says, generally speaking it isn't. Unlike back in the day, these days the paintwork is normally expected to last 10 years - however a decade of paraffining would murder it. Interestingly the South Devon use a mineral oil, which also gives very good results, although I don't know what the long term effects on the paint are.

Was that before or after the towel had gone over the bufferbeam?

 

Some of our loco's are still wearing paint that was applied 15-20years ago, cleaned with paraffin and oil. As long as it's not used too heavily and wiped off afterwards the paint can survive quite happily. Probably helps that these locos have also been kept under cover. Paraffin can be a little unkind to varnish though.

 

I think it may depend on what paint is used, in my experience it attacks the varnish, then progresses onto the lining, before finally starting on the paintwork itself.

 

There is a bit of mythology about "the way it was" and the use of paraffin and oil. I have a couple of copies of the BR - LMR document "Instructions to district motive power superintendants, shed masters and running shed foremen - cleaning of locomotives" The first is dated February 1950 signed by the Motive Power superintendant F W Abrahams, the second is somewhat different in format dated July 1954 and signed by S G Clayton. These docs are very much based on earlier LMS documents, and specify in detail the arrangements for supervision, rostering and instruction of staff; frequency of cleaning; time allowances; issue of sponge cloths; details of cleaning materials and stores catalogue numbers; use of cleaning materials; and cleaning systems. The 1950 document specifies cleaning oil as being "Pool gas oil" whilst the 1954 specifies cleaning oil as being "Royal Standard Paraffin". Both documents detail what parts of the locomotives should be cleaned with cleaning oil and both expressly forbid in capital letters "CLEANING OIL MUST NOT BE USED FOR CLEANING THE PAINTWORK". Pool gas oil wa probably a war time substitute for paraffin which was undoubtedly used pre war but which had been used for low grade fuel during the war and was presumably on ration like many other items into the early 50's.

The material specified for cleaning paintwork was "Cleaning solution A" which "is a paint cleaning solution and does not contain any polishing agent, therefore when dry wiping after using this solution the natural sheen of the paintwork is brought up." A further cleaning solution "Emulsion cleaner GP22" was available and "contains a polishing agent which imparts a brilliant finish to the paintwork when dry polishing off the residue of the cleaner". Both solutions were water soluble and were diluted to varying specified strengths according to the degree of soiling. It appears that emulsion cleaner GP22 had a short shelf life as sheds were instructed to hold only 4 weeks stock due to its chemical composition.

Interestingly both specs give comprehensive details of the procedure to be adopted for both steam cleaning and hot water washing of heavily soiled frames and wheels as well as the precautions taken to prevent water ingress into bearings, including the withdrawl of trimmings and draining oil boxes below the footframing. It also gives details of the procedure for using other locomotives to provide the hot water and steam. In stating what parts should be cleaned with cleaning oil - "main and foot frames (engine and tender), bogie or truck frames, footsteps, drop plates, brake spring and sand gear, lifeguards, wheels, motion gear, cylinder cock gear and mechnical lubricators etc etc" - it states that " The above parts may also be steam cleaned and advantage should be taken of this method whenever possible". So there you have it, steam cleaning was quite official. Most of these instructions were based on those from the LMS pre war, and I do remember the Carnforth loco inspector Bert Moore telling me many years ago that when he was cleaning in the thirties, they were supplied with special red wax for polishing the red engines. It would appear that the practice of using oil and paraffin is something that crept in during the downward slide in the fifties when anything went. Certainly Rood Ashton Hall's 11 year old paintwork wouldn't look like it does if it had been cleaned with oil and paraffin.

Bob

 

I know they are not cheap but does anyone use the modern teflon protective sprays ? I use it on both of my my old oil engines and my mountain bike and they are really good at keeping both the bare metal bright and rust free and it doesn't seem to damage the paintwork either.

 

I think all railways or most; will use Oil and Parafin as practice as it is readily available and not so expensive as others? Back in the good ole days this was the practice they always followed. So why change a habit of a lifetime?

 

Re: Qurstion for cleaners

If polish is applied sparingly and care is taken when buffing it, there should be no white rings left. You just have to check from different angles that you haven't missed any.
As for the paint work "going" and polish not being able to bring it back, I refer you to the line about Rood Ashton Hall's paint work in Bob Meanley's reply.
Polish is a more expensive option compared to parrafin/oil in the short term, but it definitely seems to prolong the life of the paint work in the long run.
I realise that we have the "luxury" of being able to clean our loco's after every trip, and that on preserved lines, where loco's are in daily use, using polish on a regular basis isn't viable on cost or time grounds.