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Rail Tour Coaching Stock

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Northern Union, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Northern Union

    Northern Union New Member Account Suspended

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    There seems to be a recurring theme in a number of threads about the quality of coaching stock used on Steam Railtours. Perhaps this subject deserves it's own thread?

    There are basically four providers of the stock, DBS, VSOE, VT and WCRC. OK five if you count the Steam Dreams Train. Are the differences in quality down to ownership? Are there variations in the various stock owned by different providers?
     
    Northern Union, Aug 8, 2012
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  2. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    I think you will find an underlying trend as to who provides the poor stock most of the times.

    Far from me to point the finger, im sure by the end of the day we will all be the wiser.
     
    guycarr360, Aug 8, 2012
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  3. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    Well discounting VSOE who are in another league and VT who I've never travelled on that leaves DBS and WCRC. I think the stock for DBS tours comes from Riviera Trains but believe there may be some link between the two companies.

    Personally I have had good and bad experiences of both. The worst culprit seems to be that blue and white Mk2 they stick on the end of the Cathedrals Express - lighting and heating are strictly optional! Externally the stock used by Steam Dreams is a right mess although some of it isn't too bad inside. I bet they can't wait to get their own train into service.

    I know everyone likes to complain about WCRC but the set we had on the Royal Duchy last week was really quite good. Even the wife was impressed. OK I admit we went First Class but the whole train looked in reasonable shape.

    Overall I would say both companies could do a lot better - it seems to be a bit of a lottery whether you get a decent coach or not, which is really not on considering the prices we have to pay these days.
     
    6026 King John, Aug 8, 2012
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  4. brasso1

    brasso1 New Member

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    Not sure about the trend...

    I would say that West Coast have around 20 decent coaches out of a huge fleet. Riviera are probably about the same as far as MkI/IIa goes. The Vintage Trains set is OK, but the SRPS train is looking a bit ropey. SRPS stock has been used by both DB and WCR to suplement their own fleets as things have been busy this summer.

    Dobbing clearly "saw" the importance of quality rolling stock (some years ago) when he had his spat with West Coast in 07/08 and moved over to DB/Riviera. They overhauled "The Royal Scot" with an exclusive deal for his trains but he then broke the agreement as West Coast was less pricey on the operational side. UK Railtours now get first refusal on that set I believe.

    MkI Stock is now 50 to 60 years old. Look at heritage railways and the amount that has been spent and it us clear the owners are fighting against the tide. Rolling stock ownership is not very lucrative and I believe the best stock will be that owned by the promoter as they will have a true interest in its comfort.
     
    brasso1, Aug 8, 2012
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  5. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know who is going to maintain the new Steam Dreams train when it arrives? Also where will it be based?
     
    6026 King John, Aug 8, 2012
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  6. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    I don't think DBS provide rolling stock. You might be thinking of Riviera Trains, who normally provide the stock for Torbay Express, Pathfinder and UK Railtours, and last year provided stock for Steam Dreams when Tornado was the locomotive. They have (or had - don't know whether it was for a limited-term) a partnership arrangement with DBS known, I think, as "Charter Alliance". I'm not privvy to the actual numbers, but I understand that Riviera charge significantly more for the hire of their stock than WCRC do.
     
    Steamage, Aug 8, 2012
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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, this is how I understand it as well. But there is an expectation of a minimum quality standard (or minimum quality first!) that has already been described many times already and about which there is probably no disagreement from the passengers or, indeed operators like UKRT, RTC and SD. Actually, I don't believe any provider of stock is immune from some criticism but by the same token I can think of good sets from each provider as well.

    With the number of trips running at present it seems that the good quality sets are in high demand leading to second rate stock appearing and also limited 'down time' for maintenance generally. But to be honest, I'm not certain that maintenance/cleaning is seen as a high priority or not to the level one would expect.

    Thinking laterally for a moment, consider each locomotive and its support coach where there is also quite a variation in quality. This is understandable at one level as this vehicle has to serve as a mess room, sleeping car, catering unit and workshop/store. But externally it shouldn't really stand out as somewhat tatty against the rest of the train especially as it is sitting next to a locomotive that is invariably in pristine condition.

    What I'm getting at is that IMHO it's got to be all about the whole image - locomotive, support vehicle and rolling stock. Steam Dreams has recognised this with plans for a dedicated set, so has West Coast (for its own trains) as also have many loco owners. The obvious example is Mercator with Clan Line - that sits very comfortably alongside the OE pullmans and sets a high external standard (also internally). But there is also Bottaurus with Bittern and many others.

    Pressure on this will have to come from the operators who ultimately get the criticism for the appearance of substandard stock. And is that not one reason why SD awarded a three year contract to DBS because of issues with WC coaches?
     
    Big Al, Aug 8, 2012
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  8. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Im not sure you could count VT as a stock "supplier" as their stock seems to be used for their own needs/tours rather than availible for hire, not saying it isn't, but recall ever seeing the TY01 set on a working that didn't have VT involvement.

    As for the set itself, seems fairly well looked after in my experience, haven't experienced any lighting/heating defects, no huge wheelflats and fairly well looked after and presentable internally and externally.

    Others sets I've had experience of are:

    The DBS/Riveira "Rainbow" - bit of a shocker externally as we all know, but internally it seems to come up to standard, heating and lighting and PA all function, seats in good condition, a bit of attention externally would bring it up to a pretty high standard, recent experience has been of the Choc n Cream MK2 that usually forms coach A on Diesel tours this year.

    WCRC Maroon MK1 - Been a while since I experienced these (7802's penultimate tour!) but I don't recall spotting anything at the time that stood out as being sub standard condition, the stock that day got it's various systems having a good workout too with lighting being needed at the start and end of the day, heating ditto and repeatedly switching from an Air Braked 47 to a Vac Braked Manor posed no issues.
     
    david1984, Aug 8, 2012
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