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Repainting a Mk 1 Carriage

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by jbe, May 10, 2022.

  1. jbe

    jbe New Member

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    Long time lurker, first time poster here....

    For about ten years I have been the part owner of a BR mark 1 carriage held at a private non-rail connected location. Happily it is generally in sound condition after quite a lot of remedial work and has been repainted twice in that time. It is the repainting that has always called problems.

    I am asking for some advice on the best way of repainting it again for a durable finish. What sort of paint should be used and how should it be applied? What are good sources of the paint? It is curently in BR Southern Green and we would like it to stay that way. However authenticity of colour is not as important as protection and durability.

    Regards, Julian
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    We use Williamson's paint on the GWSR, applied by hand with a brush. Finished with a couple of costs of varnish from the same supplier, that tends to last reasonably well.
     
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  3. K14

    K14 Member

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    A second vote for Williamson's here. Used by GWS Didcot (and the Severn Valley I believe).

    Key though are the "three Ps": Preparation, Preparation & Preparation. Slapping paint onto an unprepped surface will result in it falling off in sheets fairly quickly.
    Bear in mind that any stripped body or roof panels will need priming with a specialist coating as they're galvanised.

    Pete S.
     
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  4. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    We use williamsons Spec 81 at the SVR. Be careful of colour matching or paint from 2 different batches.

    If you intend on just painting over the other paint. You need to ensure the other paint has stuck, any blisters or exposed steel will need prepping before any paint is applied.
    Check if gutters are leaking, roof vents.
    If starting from bare metal:
    1. Replace any rusted out patches, quite common on mk1s as most know.
    2. T Wash the galv steel to prep the glav for painting
    3. Williamsons green anti corrosive primer
    4. Undercoat x 2 or 3
    5. Gloss x2
    6. Lining and lettering
    7. Williamsons spec 81 exterior varnish x 2.
     
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  5. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Take note of the Blogs on the GWSR site.
     
  6. jbe

    jbe New Member

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    Thanks to all of you for your replies and helpful advice. Williamson's looks like the way to go.

    I've had a good look at the Williamson's website and see some colours are standards, but unfortunately not a BR (SR) Stock Green. Does anyone know the corrrect RAL code for this colour?

    From their paint chart (https://trwilliamson.co.uk/product/spec-81-ral-classic-green-paint/) I see many that it could be, but a definitive answer would be a help.

    Thanks, Julian
     
  7. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Their website doesn't yet carry their full range, get in contact with them and I'm sure they'll have the correct BR(S) green. Chances are it'll be cheaper than a specially mixed RAL code too!
     
  8. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    There is no correct RAL code for BR Stock green: The original colour used was BS 381C 226 Middle Brunswick Green and incidentally the the paint for the transfer numbers was BS 381C 358 Light Buff as you can see with the figure two which was used with green vehicles and BS 381c 359 Middle Buff which you can see with the figure 3 which was used on coaches painted Maroon.
     

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  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Martin has given you the necessary information above. You need to forget RAL codes. Anything painted in BR days would be to a British Standard colour, probably in the BS381 range although there are other BS standards for paints. Williamson’s also have a catalogue of non-standard railway colours such as NER Saxony green which they can mix.
     
  10. jbe

    jbe New Member

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    Thanks again for all the information - much appreciated. I think I now have everything I need to proceed.

    Julian
     
  11. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    Not wishing to pour cold water but I heard that Williamson's have changed the formulation of some of their paints after the company changed hands, and they are not so good re coverage. I'd be glad to hear otherwise.

    Dave
     
  12. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    It seems to vary these days. Some tins can be brilliant, flow offf the brush giving a great coverage and finish. Some tins can be like glue. Very easy to put on but once you come to spread it like glue. Some tins can be very thin and washy. We had a tin of our SVR chocolate brown that came out very blocky. Painting a section of a kitchen car recently. Painted in the normal manner but it came out blocky.
    Weve had issues with the spec81 exterior varnish as well.
     
  13. alexl102

    alexl102 New Member

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    I know it isn't exactly what you're asking but there are specialists such as Heritage Painting who would are available to hire for jobs like this - obviously there's a cost to this but I wonder if it might last longer?
     
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  14. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    It would be good to know what exactly your "issues" were with previous paint?

    Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk
     
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Craft master also do coach enamel, and its normally very good, but as always, A lot depends on your standard of prep, because if your prep hasn't been 100 per cent done correct, it will show in the final coats, Very often any problems with previous paints is due to the make up of the paint, Often its better to apply a barrier coat, then base coat, Where your finishing has an impact also, next to the welding, and grinding booth isn't ideal, and having a though wipe down and degrease helps, in-between the layers, use decent quality brushes also, At the KESR we used to roller, then brush out, applying several coats of undercoat, and 2. or if i was doing it 3 top coats, but my final gloss coat , I would thin down 50/50 thinners to paint, and would be like a mirror with no brush marks, thats how i did number 3, when she went into BR black.
     
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  16. jbe

    jbe New Member

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    No "issues", just problems. After the first repaint the sides looked tatty/faded quite quickly (2-3 years). The second repaint was a lot better and was done after considerable structural remedial work, but we have still had blistering and peeling of the paint on the sides, hence my original question for which answers have been gratefully received.

    Julian
     
  17. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    If using Williamsons then varnish is essential (though I would use varnish in any case) as their fading quality of the Spec 81 range has gone down the toilet recently.

    The peeling has already been covered by the previous replies.

    Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    We have tried to speak to Williamsons/ Thomas Howes or whoever is the parent company nowadays about the quality of Spec 81. We have had a couple of issues with the varnish. Appears to come from the same batch but 2 tins behave differently. 1 tin was very thin but when applied it wouldnt spread and went like glue. The other, very thick but spread and laid off beautifully.
     

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